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Hearing, break-in etc.

204.15.222.146
Posted on November 6, 2009 at 10:33:28
fredtr
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 Been involved in hifi for quite a while. Have a theory that a lot of the break-in period for some equipment and components is us adjusting, tuning in to what we like and don't like. There is also a corollary with Dr. Tomatis work, for example, his book, The Conscious Ear.

Wonder if anyone else has had this experience.

Screwed up, first posted this in preamps, amps, better here.

It depends on how much a component's sound really does change during break-in., posted on November 7, 2009 at 08:05:09
Paul_A
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 Take for example brand new tubes. I have heard tubes go from shrill and edgy to clean and pure sounding in 48 hours. This has nothing to do with acclimation, much as the "rationalists" would like to say otherwise. Subtler changes in a component can be more difficult to distinguish from subjective changes (changes in the subject). While it is important to acknowlege that subjective differences always exist, it's a mistake to write off most of the changes heard during break-in to the listener's imagination. This is the trap that the "objectivists" consistently fall into. Distinguishing subjective changes from objective ones can require some introspective subtlety, and as you may have noticed, the exteme wing of the "power cords make no difference" camp is not distinguished by its subtlety.

RE: It depends on how much a component's sound really does change during break-in., posted on November 7, 2009 at 08:08:21
fredtr
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 Paul, enjoyed your response. Interested in the nature of the acclimation, any thoughts or observations?

Have you ever been married?, posted on November 7, 2009 at 08:41:25
Paul_A
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 .

Yes, 25 years going on 500., posted on November 7, 2009 at 09:24:20
fredtr
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 Yes, married, same process?

RE: Hearing, break-in etc., posted on November 7, 2009 at 08:05:04
fredtr
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Posts: 160
Location: Phoenix
Joined: January 4, 2005
 The one liners were pretty good, the rapier wit, got a laugh out of Dr. Obscuro.

So, our hearing evolved to be able to resolve direction and distance (imaging)? Later, focus on mid-range to distinguish individual voices?

We don't move our speakers very often (gals probably the exception). Possibly our hearing tunes to the environment (non-nomadic), filter out what is non-threatening or non-beneficial? Maybe that is the allure of changing components. We tune into a sound or sound quality we hadn't heard before?

Or the opposite, re-enforce neural pathways of a sound quality, giving them more attention, a higher priority?

These guesses assume evolution. Maybe this is the wrong forum to make that assumption.
Man you guys are all quite cranky today... nt, posted on November 6, 2009 at 20:00:52
jbcortes
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 nt

RE: Hearing, break-in etc., posted on November 6, 2009 at 11:56:59
fredtr
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Posts: 160
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 Gee, I must be an idiot.

Did a search on Tomatis in all forums. There was a single posting from 2003. Sorry to have brought up a subject that has been done to death.

You said that "You" have a therory. I have a therory that the sky is blue., posted on November 6, 2009 at 12:57:05
Chris O
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 However, we do not need to quote the journal Nature to prove that the sky is blue. If you like a certain book, state that. But don't say that your novel personal theory is that the sky is blue and that there is some assiciated corollary with "Dr. Obscuro's" book on the topic.



___
Long Live Dr.Gizmo
RE: You said that "You" have a therory. I have a therory that the sky is blue., posted on November 6, 2009 at 15:14:38
fredtr
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 Thought I did post my theory, "tuning in to what we like and don't like".

My personal observation, is that is what I do. There are a lot of bright people that post to this site. Was hoping someone might post that they have, or have not had similar experiences and maybe if so, why it is our brains do this.

Have been switching between amps and tube types last few weeks. Replaced 6CA7's with 6n3cE's (Russian lettering). After a few days the highs became very pleasing, but noticed to a minor degree clutter (possibly distortion) in the mid-range. Switched to EL84 amplifiers, high end sounded dull for a day or so, then started to hear the emotion in the mid-range.

Recalled a post, think it was audiogon discussion that said, "never listen to your system when you are in a bad mood". Don't agree with it, but do think that in part it was referring to a critical disposition, that is part of human hearing.

The other side of it, there are sound characteristics that I am particularly fond of. Have selected equipment that provides that, and find myself, even when music is a background, say working, when a song comes on that emphasizes it, quickly catches my attention, stop what I am doing to listen to it.

More generally, it seems our brain does something, over time, to tune what we hear in our systems. Did try to find peoples theories regarding this in earlier posts, didn't find much. Won't try to paraphrase Dr. Tomatis, but he found similar in human interaction, regarding what we tune in and out.
OK, now you're giving more substance to the topic, posted on November 6, 2009 at 16:13:03
JoshT
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 I think the reason you got teased by the mob is that your original post claimed a fairly well acknowledged phenomenon as being a theory of yours, and yet it's a phenomenon that's been discussed a fair amount (even if not in relation to the book you cited).

But I find your examples above to be interesting. Had you included them as observations in your original post, rather than presenting the phenomenon as a "theory", I think folks would have reacted differently and joined in with some of their own observations. Hey, it's tough crowd here sometimes!

I'll give an example to add to yours: When I first bought my CJ CA200, a 185wpc ss integrated, I bought it after an audition in which I loved the transparency and sweet top end, but was a bit put off by the leanness of its midrange. Not typical CJ sound in my experience. After deciding to buy it, I had buyer's remorse for awhile because the leanness was leaving me a bit cold. But after awhile, I really came to love the transparency and neutrality, the strong bottom end and the sweet highs. And yet, in this case, I know it was not burn in because the demo I'd heard had lots of hours on it, and yet out of the box I thought my new unit sounded quite similar.

It is an interesting phenomenon.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
RE: OK, now you're giving more substance to the topic, posted on November 6, 2009 at 16:32:11
jpbeckaudio
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 I have no doubt that a mechanical device (phono cartridge, speaker drivers) can break in, but I've often wondered whether amplifiers, cd players, etc. have a break in period, or if we just get used to them. For example, why is it always claimed that they get better with break in? I've never heard of a device sounding worse after a while; even cheap stuff. Why would the burn in period always result in an improvement?

Yes, well that's the perpetual debate, or at least one of them, posted on November 6, 2009 at 20:36:09
JoshT
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 I have no doubt that my Simaudio Moon CD5.3 sounded better with time, because I had also home auditioned a demo version less than a week before I bought the new one, with CDs I am very familiar with.

And to me, carts and speakers are obvious, and even turntables themselves seem to settle in after spinning for awhile.

And I had a pair of MIT cables that I am convinced sounded better after burn in because I left the system playing while at work, and because a good friend of mine heard them one weekend and then the next and commented on the difference without any prompting by me. Of course I cannot prove it because I didn't do any kind of double blind test or the like, so who knows for sure?

But I have never noticed any particularly noticeable effect on amps. Whether a Rotel, Krell, NAD or a Conrad Johnson, they sounded pretty much the same over time to me.

It'll never be settled, but I think it's fun to share observations, and certainly one gets used to how something sounds, whether or not its also subtly changing over time.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
boy, aren't we touchy..maybe a little bran would do?, posted on November 6, 2009 at 15:00:02
tesla
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 NT
"Son, let this be a lesson to you: never do tequila shooters within a country mile of a marriage chapel."
- Al Bundy
I was explaining to the fine gentelman why he was getting such s#it. (nt), posted on November 6, 2009 at 17:38:43
Chris O
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___
Long Live Dr.Gizmo
I have a theory, and the theory is mine . . ., posted on November 6, 2009 at 14:09:01
JoshT
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 Sorry, couldn't resist! ;-)
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Yes, Monte Python's Dinosaur Theory, posted on November 6, 2009 at 17:37:46
Chris O
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 I did not click your link but I assume that is what it is. And, yes, it is what I was refering to.

___
Long Live Dr.Gizmo
Yup!, posted on November 6, 2009 at 20:37:55
JoshT
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 I kind of figured that's where you were heading.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Remain upstairs, barricade your door and dial 911. [nt], posted on November 6, 2009 at 11:42:10
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
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 nt
Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
lmao- nt, posted on November 8, 2009 at 05:54:26
Green Lantern
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 lmao!


"You don't have to be faster than the lion....
just the guy running next to you.." -anonymous
RE: Hearing, break-in etc., posted on November 6, 2009 at 11:10:40
Spendor Harbeth
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 Did you hear Lincoln was shot? Yes, as Kal says. Been done to death.

For the record, I agree with much of it, however I also believe in break in. It's probably a combo of listener and component break in.

Of course. Why bring this up again? (NT), posted on November 6, 2009 at 10:37:44
Kal Rubinson
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No kidding. Must be the time of year or something., posted on November 6, 2009 at 11:11:05
Frank E
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 There must be enough on this subject in the archives to give years of pleasure to those so inclined.

It's that time of year all year long, posted on November 6, 2009 at 14:29:41
mls-stl
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 >> There must be enough on this subject in the archives to give years
>> of pleasure to those so inclined.

That sentiment applies to the vast majority of subjects that are discussed on this forum.

Truly new comments are a fractional percentage of the total volume of daily posts here.... ;-)

Indeed! Imagine walking into a bar, ...., posted on November 7, 2009 at 03:34:57
Bhasi
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Posts: 620
Joined: July 9, 2001
 ... and starting a conversation, only to be told 'We discussed that last week.'

I'm guessing that, although some spend a significant portion of their lives here, and may even come to regard this as something like a cumulative work of reference, many just pop in for an occasional chat with others more or less knowledgeable than themselves. Being referred to the archives isn't always what's wanted or needed!

(Mine's a half of bitter, by the way.)

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