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Need list of current HDCD encoded CD's for sale!

76.189.19.19
Posted on November 2, 2009 at 17:30:28
6 Meters DX
 I hooked up a secondary budget 'high-ish end' office system (AV123 X-LS speakers, Denon DCM-370 HDCD source, Little Dot MKIII tubed head amp/line preamp, and an AudioSource AMP Two). I am particularly blown away by how dynamic, timbrally accurate, and real my few HDCD's sound! Which begs the question: Where can I find more HDCD's to feed my 'eargasm'? Does any retailer still sell HDCD's? Is there a current list of all HDCD encoded CD's for sale by retailers (like Amazon for example)?

Thanks in advance!

George in Ohio
Ham Radio-phile
Audiophile
Music Nut

Check out this link, posted on November 3, 2009 at 08:17:00
Hyfi
Audiophile

Posts: 481
Joined: January 30, 2002
 http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=30017

Over there at AR we compiled a running list. There are also many CDs that are not labeled but are HDCD recorded.

Many CD's will light up the "HDCD" light, but are NOT HDCD encoded!, posted on November 3, 2009 at 08:49:04
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4320
Joined: August 1, 2001
 >> There are also many CDs that are not labeled but are HDCD recorded. <<

The Pacific Microsonics Model One (limited to 48 kHz) and Model Two (able to record up to 192 kHz) A/D converters include exactly two features that require decoding to achieve the best sound quality:

a) "Peak Extend" -- this is a limiter that compresses the top 9 dB of incoming signal into 3 dB of range on the disc. The operator's manual specifically says NOT to use this feature for rock music with low dynamic range. Instead, it is only useful for things like classical with a wide dynamic range.

b) "Low Level Extension" -- this is a compressor that boosts low-level signals below about -40 dBFS. Even when this is switched on, it is rarely active. I have corresponded with people who have analyzed HDCD discs and they report that this feature is only active during the track "lead in" and "fade out".

Both of these features are switchable and are used only at the discretion of the mastering engineer.

But here is the catch. ALL discs recorded with a Pacific Microsonics box will add the "secret code" that lights up the HDCD light, no matter what. This means that there are discs that DO NOT require any decoding, but will light up the light. Even the ones that were recorded with "Low Level Extension" may not benefit from decoding. The only discs that will materially benefit from decoding are the ones encoded with "Peak Extend".

Christine Tham has written how you can figure out which discs actually use "Peak Extend" using Windows Media Player 10 (or higher, I believe).

The bottom line is that there is a reason why there are discs that are not labeled but still light up the light -- the recording engineer did not use any HDCD features and they do not require decoding.

RE: Many CD's will light up the "HDCD" light, but are NOT HDCD encoded!, posted on November 3, 2009 at 15:01:18
Eric B
Audiophile

Posts: 41
Joined: October 11, 2001
 What is your opinion of HDCD technology? Many of the HDCD discs that I own sound pretty good. I don't know whether that is because of the HDCD technology or better care in mastering the discs.

HDCD sounds very good even today, posted on November 4, 2009 at 05:36:10
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 3514
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 I don't know if it's only the better mastering, but to my ears HDCD discs have sounded the best so far in my machines. Unfortunately, for my taste in music (mostly jazz), there were too few HDCD disc available to make it a viable medium to stick with. So even though my NAD 542 can decode it, I'm using an external DAC that cannot; hence, no more HDCD for me.

I wish Microsoft had not bought this technology. They let it die on the vine (or maybe the killed it deliberately, who know?)

RE: HDCD sounds very good even today, posted on November 4, 2009 at 11:03:34
Eric B
Audiophile

Posts: 41
Joined: October 11, 2001
 I agree HDCD showed showed real promise. It would have been interesting to see how they could have advanced the HDCD technology. Your're right, it seems to be fading.

RE: HDCD sounds very good even today, posted on November 4, 2009 at 16:30:59
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4320
Joined: August 1, 2001
 I'm just guessing, but I think HDCD would be dead today if not for Microsoft buying it. I don't think that the company was in very good shape when it was sold.

When the concept of HDCD was announced in the early '90s there was a lot of excitement around it. But by the time it actually got to market, it was only a couple of years until SACD and DVD-A made it superfluous.

And we *still* have no good way of knowing how much of the good sound quality of an HDCD disc is due to the process itself or simply the high quality of the A/D converter that Keith Johnson designed.

RE: Many CD's will light up the "HDCD" light, but are NOT HDCD encoded!, posted on November 3, 2009 at 20:58:24
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4320
Joined: August 1, 2001
 When the Pacifics Microsonic A/D converter came out, it was light years ahead of anything else. In fact the only "anything else" at the time was a Sony 1630, full of cheap op-amps.

The PM was designed by Keith Johnson who does most of Spectral's stuff. What would you rather listen to, a $199 Sony preamp full of cheap op-amps, or a $10,000 Spectral preamp with discrete circuitry by Keith Johnson?

*That* was by far the main reason that HDCD discs sounded so good. It was another ten years before there were a lot of other viable choices. But they did a converter shoot-out for the Beatles remastering project and it was won by a Prism A/D. So you don't need the PM converter to get good sound any more. But a lot of mastering houses still use it and it's still a good sounding converter. It's just that every CD made with it will light up the HDCD light.

And for at least five years, the people using the PM converter *don't* use the HDCD features because there are so few players capable of decoding them. So anyone that tries to compile lists of "HDCD" discs is going to end up with a bunch of nonsense. Sorry guys...

RE: Many CD's will light up the "HDCD" light, but are NOT HDCD encoded!, posted on November 4, 2009 at 06:47:52
Quadzilla
Audiophile

Posts: 1548
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Joined: July 31, 2003
 I have been buying some of the recent Audio Fidelity gold releases that Steve Hoffman has redone. They light the HDCD lamp, AND they specifically list HDCD on the covers. Are you saying that these are not true HDCD disks?



Prehistoric 4-Channel Lizard
RE: Many CD's will light up the "HDCD" light, but are NOT HDCD encoded!, posted on November 4, 2009 at 16:27:28
Charles Hansen
Manufacturer

Posts: 4320
Joined: August 1, 2001
 I have no idea.

I would guess that if they went to the trouble of putting the HDCD logo on the cover that they would have engaged one of the two HDCD compansion features that can be decoded for better sound. But that is just a guess.

As noted before, the operator's manual explicitly warns against using "Peak Extend" with rock music that already has a limited dynamic range. And even if the "Low Level Extension" is engaged, it may not matter. According to sources that have analyzed some HDCD discs, the music is never at a low enough level to activate that feature. It would require a pianissimo passage on a classical recording to do that.

RE: google is your friend, posted on November 2, 2009 at 18:48:43
LousyTourist
Audiophile

Posts: 1237
Location: Frigid Minnesnowta
Joined: August 14, 2006
 www.goodwinshighend.com/hdcd


The political problem of mankind is to combine three things: economic efficiency, social justice and individual liberty.
-- John Maynard Keynes

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