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I haven't. Has anyone here taken the time and effort to hear those mega-mega

97.125.125.201
Posted on October 30, 2009 at 18:24:50
tinear
Audiophile

Posts: 26482
Location: Willamette Valley OR
Joined: April 9, 2006
 buck systems?
The MBL, Kharma, etc. speaker systems? Those Lamm-priced amplifiers? The Burmester cd players?
Just curious.
I've got a very modest pair of vintage systems, neither of which particularly play extremely loudly and neither of which have "realistic" orchestral-sized presentations. I'm happy because both are musical and coherent.

MBL big speakers rock, not the doubled ones(I never heard those), posted on November 4, 2009 at 16:01:54
richardl
Audiophile

Posts: 1914
Joined: September 5, 2002
 The ones with the bandpass bass unit(pyramid at the bottom). They sounded excellent. Amps were a nightmare though, They looked like they weighed 300lbs (900watts or so?)and were the size of a trunk, immense. Someone said that they were necessarily huge as the speakers were a tough load.

Heard the monster Legacy speakers at RMAF, posted on November 1, 2009 at 19:16:26
andy_c
Audiophile

Posts: 963
Joined: June 2, 2007
 These puppies. This was my favorite room at the show. They sounded wonderful - effortless, clear and huge sound. I live in the area, and as I drove home, I was thinking what a letdown it would be to listen to my own system after hearing "the good stuff".

I was wrong. In fact, the best part of RMAF for me was going home and realizing just how darned good my system sounded to me. It needs a sub for that first-octave bass, but I can't have that in my current apartment setting. Also, the sheer scale of the sound of my monitors could not match that of the monster Legacy speakers. But I don't notice that unless I stand up when listening (at a 9 ft. distance from the speakers). Other than those two things, I have zero complaints. In fact, some of the very expensive systems I heard at the show sounded poor compared to my own setup - which is pretty modestly priced. Like you, I'm happy with my current setup. I can focus on the music without being hung up on the sound. That's a good place to be - no audiophile nervosa.

I was a little disappointed., posted on November 3, 2009 at 17:07:04
mark111
Audiophile

Posts: 3102
Joined: April 12, 2002
 I have admired the Legacy speakers from afar (Catalogs,magazines,etc.)for years.I had my hopes up for best-in-show sound.They do sound very nice , but the Acoustic Zen room sounded far better.
enjoy,
mark

RE: I haven't. Has anyone here taken the time and effort to hear those mega-mega, posted on November 1, 2009 at 04:47:56
ToneDeaf
 I heard the Magico M5s, and they did blow away everything I had heard before. I'll have to wait until the mortgage is paid off!

Yes I have, and there are no magic revelations..., posted on October 31, 2009 at 15:02:15
Steve Parry
Audiophile

Posts: 1722
Location: No. California
Joined: August 19, 2002
 ...even at the very top of the heap. I have heard a top Shindo system, Audio Note, Magico M5 with the Clearaudio $150K turntable, Wilsons, etc.

While they are all good, there were no paradigm shifters with regard to reproduction of music.

Once I came to terms with this I realized it was time to sell off my system. I realized I would never be happy regardless of what I had spent, and I had already spent a lot!

I had to have a rational goal, rather than just "better".

Steve

What do you use now?, posted on November 1, 2009 at 23:39:15
jusbe
Audiophile

Posts: 2822
Location: Yorkshire
Joined: April 4, 2000
 What you have listed? I did something similar recently and for similar reasons. Am into tried and tested vintage for now (mostly) and nothing too expensive.
big j

"...only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
RE: I haven't. Has anyone here taken the time and effort to hear those mega-mega, posted on October 31, 2009 at 09:22:59
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 I've heard a few of the megabucks SS based systems, which is why I decided SET amplification was the way to go.


Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
AN CDT TWO/II + DAc 5 Sig + Ongaku Integrated + An E/SE Sig + SOTO ICs + Sogon Spkr cables =, posted on October 31, 2009 at 10:14:25
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 8435
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 SET what_end? at what price?
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
RE: AN CDT TWO/II + DAc 5 Sig + Ongaku Integrated + An E/SE Sig + SOTO ICs + Sogon Spkr cables =, posted on October 31, 2009 at 10:38:25
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 I've heard the Meishu which you have many times and I'd pick that over any SS amp I've ever heard partnered with any mid level AN/Es or higher.

I notice you use Stirling LS3/5As and I'm sure you've heard this many times, but they probably aren't the best match with the Meishu.
If you find them to your taste that's all that matters though, and the strengths must obviously be overshadowing the weaknesses.


Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
The LS3/5As are glorious with the Meishu on small ensambles, posted on October 31, 2009 at 11:40:44
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 8435
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 I was surprised. Peter Qvortrup was not. The LS3/5A is very well integrated, smooth sounding speaker, also very easy to drive even if not that sensitive.

I'm thinking of disconnecting the preamp section (M3) in the Meishu and driving the power amp section with a deHavilland UV2 until I can get an M3 preamp to replace it. The previous owner had it set up as a power amp.
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
FWIW..., posted on October 31, 2009 at 15:23:08
R Browne
Audiophile

Posts: 640
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: January 14, 2002
 I used a pair of Spendor S3/5's for awhile with an Audio Note P2 SE in a small room. The speakers were well suited to the room, but ultimately I missed the dynamics of larger speakers of greater efficiency even more than the lack of low frequency extension. A very nicely proportioned presentation for that particular room. With proper speaker positioning it did a fine job of playing all types of music.

I agree...., posted on November 1, 2009 at 01:47:57
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 8435
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 Ultimately, there are so many tradeoffs. I would love to find a speaker with the presentation of the Brit minis + dynamics and efficiency for a very small space. The AN K comes close. I'm still looking.
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
RE: The LS3/5As are glorious with the Meishu on small ensambles, posted on October 31, 2009 at 12:00:03
chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com
Reviewer

Posts: 10208
Location: Lancashire.
Joined: January 21, 2001
 I've got a pair of JR 149s which are basically LS3/5As and they do go well with SETs, just without the bottom end of the AN/Es.

They certainly put a lot of modern designs to shame.

Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
RE: I haven't. Has anyone here taken the time and effort to hear those mega-mega, posted on October 31, 2009 at 09:12:37
Mike B.
Manufacturer

Posts: 15904
Location: Oregon
Joined: September 27, 1999
Contributor
  Since: September 1, 1999
 It is pretty easy to get caught up in chasing the sound and the music falls to second place.

RE: I haven't. Has anyone here taken the time and effort to hear those mega-mega, posted on October 31, 2009 at 07:57:05
Quint
Audiophile

Posts: 2784
Joined: June 21, 2003
 I’m a former owner of a megabuck system (close to 200k). Personally, I don’t begrudge anyone the right to spend their money the way they want, but in my case, the results I achieved were not worth the money invested. That’s not to say I didn’t assemble the components carefully—I did, and the system did some things incredibly well—but I was always nitpicking aspects of the sound and never relaxed enough to fully enjoy what I was hearing. That’s one of the risks of a really costly system; the more it costs, the higher the expectations and, consequently, the greater the risk of disappointment. At least in my case.

I’m in the process of building up a much more modest main system, but in the meantime I’ve been listening to my second rig, which costs a mere fraction of my old system. Of course it’s not as good, but since my expectations are lower, my enjoyment of the music is greater. With care and a little luck, my new system will involve me in the same way, without the burden of unrealistic expectations. I must emphasize here, what I’m describing is a personal, emotional experience and in no way is a reflection of the quality of megabuck gear. Most of it costs what it does for a reason, and performs commensurately. I wish I could afford a new Porsche Turbo, but that doesn’t diminish my enjoyment of my Infiniti G35. It’s all in the eye of the beholder.

Some engineers practically give away some amazing stuff, posted on October 31, 2009 at 07:56:32
4season
Audiophile

Posts: 1680
Location: Colorado, USA
Joined: April 2, 2002
 The better systems I've heard may not have fooled me into thinking the music was live, but they conveyed a sense of scale and space that made for a pretty good virtual reality!

But one of the speaker systems I'd most like to hear is the Linkwitz Orion, and particularly if you supply most of the labor in assembling it, it's actually somewhat affordable by high end standards.

In fact, the more I dig around, the more I discover micro-manufacturers. These seem to be hobby-businesses run by engineer types who have regular daytime jobs. They basically give away their know-how for free, maybe sell a few key parts, and leave it up to the builder to chase down everything else. I just built a DAC and headphone amp from two such sources (amb.org and quadesl.com, respectively)and what do you know, they sound good, really good. Basically, you're only paying for parts and shipping.

RE: I haven't. Has anyone here taken the time and effort to hear those mega-mega, posted on October 31, 2009 at 03:30:30
jimmyjames
Audiophile

Posts: 3176
Location: Raleighwood
Joined: February 20, 2001
 I've listened extensively to a couple of systems that cost in excess of $100K and they were incredible. Still, I thought the systems were overkill for the rooms they were in, one of which was purpose built, designed by an acoustical engineer. The systems could convey dynamics in spades however.

"E pur si muove...And yet it moves"
Yes, mostly all-Audio Note. The differeences are dramatic, posted on October 31, 2009 at 03:14:08
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 8435
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 It's hard for me to tell the difference between a $250,000 AN-system and a $500,000 AN-system. (The numbers are for illustration, only) But I can easily hear large differences between a budget AN system and a high-end AN system. I can also usually hear large differences between budget AN systems and budget non-AN systems. Budget AN-systems sometimes sound "better" to me than some more expensive non-AN systems.

By budget-AN system, I mean: AN CD 2.1/II, OTO SE integrated, K speakers, lexus cables. I am not sure of US prices.

I didn't always think this way. I just had to listen. I am now slowly making my way up the AN ladder.

Many will scoff. It's the American way. The creed of the uncommon common man. Who wants to be common, other than Danes?
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
RE: I haven't. Has anyone here taken the time and effort to hear those mega-mega, posted on October 31, 2009 at 00:00:27
Audioquest4life
Audiophile

Posts: 675
Joined: March 6, 2004
 I can honestly say that having heard many end systems and having gone to plenty of live performances, that the coorelation of trying to get a home system to sound real is almost impossible. We all know why so I will now go into that. In regards to getting better sound from more costly components, well that is a hit or miss subject, but "generally speaking; the more we move up in a price range, the better and quality of the components to make a component, should equate to better performance. Way to many variables involved, someone who has a small room with 10x15 dimension with only a 10 watt SET amp and smaller horn speakers and subs, could get away with a vast lower price then someone who has a room that has 20x40 room and needs more amplification, bigger speakers, bigger subs, and hence a bigger budget, unless the person who owns the bigger room is not concerned about generall overall dynamic range and is satisfied with the "reproduction" of music rather than the full visceral dynamics and tonal complexities, i;e, details, but rather "listen" to the music and not wonder if the cymbal is in the last 4th row or the bass is at 20hz or 40hz, or if there is any bass at all.

I want to be able to feel and hear all of the dynamic ranges of music. To me this is what comrpises music, nit just sit back and listening, listening and getting involved in the music are two different things, getting involved means that your senses become alerted by other sounds from the music that is being played back, not just the words and the music sounds heard in the background, anyone can play a boombox to listen to music, heck I do when I am in the garage, but again, for me total immersion in the music involves getting all of my senses involved, I like to feel the bass sometimes, I like to know that there is a saxophone on the left middle row, versus a trumpet up front, or the effects that the engineers put into the music when they pan a certain aspect of a song, such as a keyboard effect that goes from front right to middle and then a drum thwack that hits across the soundfield from left to right. Listen to some Fleetwood Mac, Rumors, on vinyl and see for yourself how the drum thwacks, or some Pablo Cruise World Away, Family Man, the drums are distinctly panning left to right and right to left, because I can hear them with my system, and scale I hear them at is loud, so I feel somewhat like I am almost there, but not quite.

For what it is all worth, some people could say the same thing about getting a Ford Fiesta versus a Mercedes CLS550, they both can get you from point A to pint (did I say that)B, but it is how they get you there that is vastly different.

I am not advocating spending hard earned cash on costly megabuck items if you do not need too, but there will be people who will do that no matter what, and quite frankly they would probably not even waste their time reading psost like these or surfing audioasylum as much as other people do.

So, go spend your money the way you want too, and others will spend it they way they want to. Listen to music the way you want to, and others will listent to music the way they want. There is no correct protocol to tell anyone how they should validate listening to music, if they are happy with the boom box fine, with the megabuck system, fine or anything in between, fine. People will always learn as they listen to more music and become familiar with sounds on different systems, they will decide on their own if they need to upgrade or change, or stay the same. Many say it is about listening to the music, I tend to sway into that area with the additional caveat of total immersion, hence total dynamic range, I want to hear the organ pedal go down low and cause couch to shake or hear the trumpet blast from the middle of the room, or side.

Enough already, time to listen to some more music.
Ciao,
Audioquest4life

yeah, i have., posted on October 30, 2009 at 22:00:18
hifitommy
Audiophile

Posts: 9503
Location: shaky sylmar calif, orig from buffalo ny
Joined: June 9, 2000
 i belong to the LA/OC audio society and we visit stores, factories, and other venues where these items that are in the state of the art components.

recently i attended a meeting at weinhart design in bel air where magico speakers that were indeed awesome.

http://www.weinhartdesign.com/

www.laocas.com

investigate these sites and see what you find.

...regards...tr

RE: I haven't. Has anyone here taken the time and effort to hear those mega-mega, posted on October 30, 2009 at 20:37:04
AudioTrip
Audiophile

Posts: 23
Joined: October 24, 2009
 The meabuck systems are WAY OVERRATED!

Any good stereo will play loud. High volume playback (>105dB) is just for show1

"REALISTIC SIZED" symphony playback in a home system is not possible!

Go to a concert if you want realistic.

I have heard these megabuck systems in stores and shows. I was not really blown away. You can do just as well for much less money.

WELLLL..., posted on October 30, 2009 at 21:19:20
suretyguy
Audiophile

Posts: 2153
Location: western Missouri
Joined: October 9, 2001
 In general I agree, but with certain reservations:

> Overrated, perhaps, but in some cases not "WAY" (Why are you
yelling?). I've heard several that were spectacularly good.

> Who ever said "REALISTIC SIZED" (You're yelling again!) symphony
playback in a home system is possible? No one with any sense, I'm
sure.

> "Go to a concert if you want realistic" I might agree if
almost every live performance these days weren't amplified.


> "You can do just as well for much less money." I'd agree if you
dropped the "just as".

They're usually a let down, posted on October 30, 2009 at 21:12:38
jedrider
Audiophile

Posts: 4824
Location: No. California
Joined: December 26, 2003
 Getting all that expensive equipment to sound good is no small task. Actually, I was impressed to hell with little speakers and a SET amplifier. (Although I could see the megabuck CD player and the cabling that cost way more than the components themselves.)

I saw Lamm equipment with music-hose?? interconnects that are the size of Anaconda's at some show. I thought it was a bit ridiculous and I didn't stay around to hear them.

Are You Sure? ..................., posted on October 30, 2009 at 20:34:11
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 22046
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 What happened to that pricey Edge amplifier you once reviewed?


That, I'd argue, was "buck," not megabuck. I'd say that price range, and I, posted on October 31, 2009 at 09:01:47
tinear
Audiophile

Posts: 26482
Location: Willamette Valley OR
Joined: April 9, 2006
 bought it "used," is Corvette. There is Lotus, Porsche, Lamby, and Ferrari in the "mega" range.
And quit being coy. You know I sold my $$$ gear, long ago.

To Answer Your Question ..................., posted on October 30, 2009 at 21:09:11
Todd Krieger
Audiophile

Posts: 22046
Location: SW United States
Joined: November 2, 2000
 The best way to sample the super-priced gear is at an audiophile show like Stereophile HE...... The last one I attended was HE 2006 in Los Angeles...... (I also attended the recent Can Jam 2009 show in Los Angeles, but it was mainly for headphone-based systems. No super-pricey stuff at that show.) I personally was not overly impressed, but the hotel environment might have compromised some of the presentations. (I was totally unimpressed by the new digital playback at these shows. I think if one goes for a premium price system, he should include vinyl as a source.)


06' LA show, posted on October 31, 2009 at 08:02:43
Craiger56
Audiophile

Posts: 2396
Location: San Jose CA
Joined: April 3, 2002
Contributor
  Since: December 29, 2003
 We were mesmerized in the MBL room, stuned really, clean clear full-range sound at seemingly unlimited volume.

A lottery winner's system for sure.

i disagree about the shows, posted on October 30, 2009 at 22:06:41
hifitommy
Audiophile

Posts: 9503
Location: shaky sylmar calif, orig from buffalo ny
Joined: June 9, 2000
 its not the place to hear the stuff, its a place to SEE the stuff. oh, you may hear a good thing now and again but those hotel rooms are notorious for generally mediocre sound.

ideally the place to hear this stuff is in someone's home.

...regards...tr

Another of his trolls nt, posted on October 30, 2009 at 20:55:10
snert
Audiophile

Posts: 3097
Joined: February 14, 2006
 .

Yes, posted on October 30, 2009 at 20:20:49
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 9838
Location: Central boonies
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Its a lot easier when you know a reviewer who gets to play with those toys.

rw

So tell him how John's and Harry's systems compare to yours...(nt), posted on October 31, 2009 at 11:05:43
mkuller
Audiophile

Posts: 15929
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: April 22, 2003
Contributor
  Since: December 28, 2003
 (nt)

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