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Stereophile: Get your story straight on MQA Please
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Posted on October 30, 2016 at 13:04:39 | ||
Posts: 1207
Location: Hollywod, CA Joined: January 7, 2016 |
Dec 2014/January 2015: http://www.stereophile.com/content/meridians-mqa-one-listeners-impression#02tfU5XzxhKmfeHE.97 "As MQA needs to be applied at the mastering stage in a recording's production, it doesn't improve the sound quality of your existing CD collection. It is really only relevant to downloads." John Atkinson "MQA need to be applied at the mastering stage". We know this to be totally untrue, as Warner as batch converted files using MQA. Does anyone one know of a single mastering engineer who has "mastered with MQA"? "Only relevant to downloads?" We that to be untrue as the one of the major selling points of MQA is streaming. "..it doesn't improve the sound quality of your existing CD collection." Really? Bob Stuart says it magically does: "Sometimes even a CD rip might indeed be used as a master... http://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-and-warner-real-scoop#TPEIubLGUViLvjyS.97 "No, there is no compatibility between MQA and DSD. Which should not be surprising, given that Bob Stuart has always been a very vocal critic of the DSD concept." John Atkinson "We haven't done the DSD yet, but that should be easy to do." Bob Stuart, 2016 There is more, a lot more.
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RE: Stereophile: Get your story straight on MQA Please, posted on October 30, 2016 at 13:51:18 | |
Posts: 13158
Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002 |
Audiostream also. |
RE: Stereophile: Get your story straight on MQA Please, posted on October 30, 2016 at 14:12:44 | |
Hi Fred, What, exactly, does "AudioStream", i.e. me, have to get straight? |
RE: Stereophile: Get your story straight on MQA Please, posted on October 30, 2016 at 22:54:11 | |
Posts: 1207
Location: Hollywod, CA Joined: January 7, 2016 |
Robert Harley would never claim that.. |
Show Report v Review, posted on October 31, 2016 at 07:49:46 | |
I'd imagine you understand the difference. In any event, have a nice day, Doug. |
RE: Another example-This is your "comparison''?, posted on October 31, 2016 at 07:54:48 | |
Posts: 881
Location: North America Joined: April 16, 2005 |
You lost me here... Can you explain more? Doug |
RE: Another example-This is your "comparison''?, posted on October 31, 2016 at 09:28:42 | |
Posts: 13158
Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002 |
It's abut the standard of reviews, as your post alludes to. |
You can't please everyone, Fred., posted on October 31, 2016 at 10:21:17 | |
I take it you are saying the standard of my reviews are not up to your standards. So it goes, Fred. Cheers. |
I bought mine, posted on November 1, 2016 at 18:36:40 | |
They're widely available, and cheap. |
there's an obvious alternative. , posted on November 1, 2016 at 18:38:53 | |
Just don't express an opinion. |
RE: Why not?, posted on November 2, 2016 at 08:54:13 | |
Doug, I had not read that article. I just skimmed it. You seem to have overlooked what's probably the most useful source (IMO): an article in JAES in which Stuart and Craven outline both the general schema and the technology. I believe it was a conference proceeding. (Note that 'MQA' does not appear in the article, so don't search for that.) I think you'll find it useful, although the technical part is more suggestive than detailed. I don't have a link handy but it's not hard to find. A couple of answers from my perspective, which aren't likely to be news to you 6 months after that was written. Sure, the time-smear-repair aspect of MQA can surely be separated from the origami part; indeed, some of the advantage of the anti-smear technology is effective--this is my understanding--even when you don't use an MQA converter; that is, the basic PCM your DAC receives has been improved, even if your DAC can't "unfold" the file. If my information is correct, and I think it is, that's proof of sorts. As for the importance of the small file size, I think it matters. On the user side: I live in NYC (just down the street from a Gbit Google kiosk, one of many in the city) and get my broadband from Columbia University. Yet, there are places in this pre-war apartment--heavily built with thick walls--where it's hard to get a strong (wireless) signal. Sure, I could pay a big chunk to have them add ethernet throughout, but it's a rental, so I'm not inclined to. Streaming video in much of the house is dicey, because of the wireless. There are still plenty of pockets in this country that don't have decent broadband, and while much of the world is ahead of the United States in broadband dissemination, much of it isn't, and some of it is metered, so compression saves significant cash. On the other end of the line, I'm sure there are significant savings for the streamer/retailer. I suspect that this advantage on the business end is a bigger deal than the advantages for consumers. >>I feel it's this kind of work audio writers should do.<< Great, no disagreement here. I think JA has done more of this than anyone. I've done a bit too--and I feel sure that the understanding, such as it is, that we have of the technology is a big part of the reason we're perceived as supporters of MQA: It hangs together, and the basic premise--that temporal response really matters--rings true. I do think we (and especially you editors) need to keep our readers in mind--they don't want to see a lot of equations--but if we're doing our jobs well, we should explore the technical questions. I would however point out that while Soundstage and Stereophile both, I think, still do measurements, which is wonderful, they're both (as I don't need to tell you) solidly in the subjectivist realm. It is standard procedure to express opinions without scientifically rigorous procedures. It's what we do and what most of our readers expect. We're judged according to how well we do it--and the extent to which we keep readers informed and entertained. Which is to say, I wonder if you and your writers give similar critical attention to other technical issues in audio, like whether deta-sigma is best, or the technical merits of DSD, or the frequency response of cables--as you're giving to MQA. Best, |
RE: Why not?, posted on November 2, 2016 at 11:05:07 | |
>>But many engineers have asked: "What if multiple ADCs were used to record a single track? And what about cascading DACs?" How can one possibly correct for all of that?<< A reasonable question, to which I can only provide a schematic (not exact) answer. I suspect a schematic answer is the best you're going to get (not that mine is the best possible). The MQA folks refer to their work on such projects as "white-gloving," the meaning of which is, I think, obvious. Bob and I talked a lot about this, especially in the context of early digital recordings. He said they've been studying a large cache of albums--about 10,000 high-res and about 10,000+ at CD resolution. In this way, they've learned a lot about what typical albums look like from a time-smear perspective and what problems arise. (Bob didn't say, to me, that their algorithm uses "artificial intelligence," although he did use the phrase. He said--I didn't check the transcript, but this is the gist--that it was sort of like artificial intelligence.) I suspect though that the correct answer is, you can't correct for all of that, but you can correct for some of it. Which is to say, you can create a version of the recording that sounds better, not perfect. As for your proposed "demo" track: that certainly would be interesting. Way back in February, I requested (not sure who I was communicating with then--possibly Stuart) graphical evidence: Show me what a transient, in real music, looks like before and after. I don't remember what the response was, but I never got the plot. However, something very close to that was published on the Stereophile site in the Q&A with Bob Stuart; look at graphs 8-13. Those plots are made using a DAC emulator because there's a basic measurement problem: To get a real signal out, you'd need to use an ADC and then reverse its characteristics. Anyway, maybe we'll see something like that someday, but satisfying the skepticism of a few audio writers probably is not at the top of their to-do list. >>Now to your problem -- my past life installing networks would say: "Ok, that's a problem for you and we might have to reduce the bandwidth - for YOU." (Providing other solutions don't work.) But what about me and countless others who don't have the issue -- why do we want to use a lossy compression scheme when we really don't have to?<< Ah, I see your point. You're worried about the fact that it's not lossless, strictly speaking. I think this is a reflection of a shift of emphasis from the technicalities of the format to what's actually happening in the music. To worry about a bit of loss in the compression algorithm is to assume that every bit is equally important. As noted in several MQA documents, above a certain frequency there's no real information anyway--no information related to the music. Compressing that in a lossy way doesn't do a lot of harm. (I recall shaking my head the first time I saw the phrase "partial zero-emission vehicle" on the side of a Subaru. Compression in MQA is kind of like that: Partly lossless, partly lossy.) Anyway, you can't always get what you want. I'm going to not finish the Stones reference. That would be too cute. jca |
Thanks Michael (nt), posted on November 2, 2016 at 11:25:26 | |
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I am reviewing the review, posted on November 2, 2016 at 12:30:35 | |
Posts: 13158
Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002 |
and if the two of you think it is a waste of your time, then why bother responding. |
RE: Not a question of space, posted on November 2, 2016 at 16:23:22 | |
Would love to attend that some day--or maybe just go there when there's no audio show. |
RE: Jsut curious..., posted on November 2, 2016 at 18:29:00 | |
Posts: 1207
Location: Hollywod, CA Joined: January 7, 2016 |
Somewhat. |
RE: How many threads..., posted on November 2, 2016 at 18:41:27 | |
No, I don't find this piddly nonsense amusing. |
You clearly have not read..., posted on November 3, 2016 at 08:54:22 | |
...their article on MQA since they say much more than 'good'. |
RE: You clearly have not read..., posted on November 3, 2016 at 10:14:54 | |
Posts: 13158
Location: Kent Joined: June 1, 2002 |
Clutching for straws to reinforce your mojo? Do it somewhere else. |
Correcting you..., posted on November 3, 2016 at 13:55:26 | |
...yet again. Do you ever grow tired of posting nonsense. (rhetorical) |
"The definition of insanity..., posted on November 6, 2016 at 10:04:54 | |
...is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results." ;-) It's been real, Fred. |
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