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Say What?! Musicians Hear Better

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Posted on October 21, 2009 at 13:33:08
regmac
Audiophile

Posts: 1843
Joined: April 7, 2002
 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113938566

by Jon Hamilton
"October 19, 2009 - Musical training can improve your hearing, according to several studies presented in Chicago at Neuroscience 2009, the annual meeting of the Society for Neuroscience.

The studies found that serious musicians are better than other people at perceiving and remembering sounds. But it's not because they have better ears.

Sounds come in through the ears. But they travel through the nervous system and get interpreted by the brain.

That means your hearing can change even if your ears don't, says Nina Kraus, who directs the Auditory Neuroscience Laboratory at Northwestern University.

"Your hearing system becomes tuned by the experiences that you have had with sound throughout your life," Kraus says.

The Musician's Brain

Kraus figured that the hearing systems of musicians ought to be more finely tuned than those of other people. So she tested their ability to do something challenging: understand what someone is saying in a noisy room.

Fifteen classically trained musicians and 16 nonmusicians listened to a voice reciting simple sentences against an increasingly loud backdrop of other conversations.

Standard hearing tests had shown that the musicians' ears weren't any more sensitive than those of the other listeners. But Kraus knew that their brains, shaped by years of training, had become very good at a similar task:

"A musician will be listening to the sound of his own instrument even though many other instruments are playing," she says, a skill not unlike separating one voice from a crowd of voices.

Kraus wanted to know whether this skill helps musicians pick out a particular voice the same way they pick out a particular instrument. "And resoundingly it does," she says.

A closer look at musical brains may explain why.

Tests show that certain sounds produce stronger electrical signals in a musician's brain stem, Kraus says. And, she says, these signals offer a more accurate representation of pitch, timing and tone quality — three things that help us pick out a single voice in a noisy room."
RE: Say What?! Musicians Hear Better, posted on October 25, 2009 at 08:04:28
mazort
Audiophile

Posts: 47
Location: San Antone
Joined: February 28, 2003
 For what's it's worth, I can contribute one empirical observation, I've been an audiophile for about 45 years and have been taking classical piano for the last 12 years (no comments allowed about 56 year old piano students!). My teacher hears a LOT better than I do, and had no trouble telling me which component was better and why when I took her to a hi-fi store and we sat down for a listen!

I would say your talking about a trained ear not better hearing, posted on October 23, 2009 at 05:31:32
Steyr
Manufacturer

Posts: 79
Joined: September 11, 2009



I would say many folks in audio design and dare I say maybe even reviewers might have the same.

RE: Say What?! Musicians Hear Better ...and they have, posted on October 21, 2009 at 21:35:45
JustJoe
Audiophile

Posts: 128
Location: Essex
Joined: July 8, 2009
 usually very very Mid fi systems.
:)
What does that tell us?
Just Joe
Blind testing of gear works: If it doesn't sound better with your eyes closed, then it doesn't sound better!
It tells us, posted on October 23, 2009 at 09:15:00
Analog Scott
Audiophile

Posts: 4001
Joined: January 8, 2002
 that you have made several classic errors in logic. You apint musicians with an unreasonably broad brush, you fail to consider economic forces and you fail to make a meaningful comparison to the general public rather than audiophiles as a control group.

It tells me . . ., posted on October 22, 2009 at 08:36:11
caspian@peak.org
Audiophile

Posts: 386
Location: Oregon
Joined: January 12, 2008
 . . . that they would rather spend their money on a better instrument than on h-fi gear. This is certainly the case with a number of musicians of my acquaintance, who are far more focused on performing than on passive listening.

No, and a little yes, - there are several reasons., posted on October 22, 2009 at 13:36:30
Sordidman
Dealer

Posts: 9245
Location: San Francisco
Joined: May 14, 2001
 There are musicians who are audiophiles as well. I've got a bunch of friends who fit the bill...

1. Musicians often listen for content, listening past what it sounds like.

2. True, musicians are focused on buying better instruments, and worrying about the tone of what they're playing.

3. Also, musicians are just too busy working two jobs while pursuing their art to focus on listening, or gaining more enjoyment by listening to "better" systems.

4. Finally, musicians focus more on the quality of the recording, because many of them have seen their "fine" recording turn to crap when it finally makes it to disc after manufacturing. The final CD is not the recording, but the result of it being turned to crap: in most cases.

I have a number of friends who bring their music, and other music that they like over to my house to listen.

Surrendered to self preservation,
From others who care for themselves.
A blindness that touches perfection,
But hurts just like anything else.
True, but ..., posted on October 22, 2009 at 11:24:56
rbolaw
Audiophile

Posts: 653
Location: NYC
Joined: December 28, 2004
 As one who only moonlights as a musician, I can poke fun at both sides. A pianist/composer I knew in NYC had a nine-foot Steinway grand wedged diagonally into the only real room of his tiny apartment. It remined me of some audiophiles who have sound systems that could be used in Yankee Stadium crammed into their tiny apartments. :-)

Must I constantly answer my own questions...LOL?, posted on October 22, 2009 at 05:03:13
JustJoe
Audiophile

Posts: 128
Location: Essex
Joined: July 8, 2009
 It tells me that appreciating music is in the ear of the listener, and one does not need the finest detail and fidelity in a system to be able to appreciate the music.

Just Joe
Blind testing of gear works: If it doesn't sound better with your eyes closed, then it doesn't sound better!
You have masterfully stated the obvious, posted on October 22, 2009 at 07:53:58
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 9838
Location: Central boonies
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 Who has ever opined otherwise?

rw

RE: You have masterfully stated the obvious, posted on October 22, 2009 at 10:09:54
JustJoe
Audiophile

Posts: 128
Location: Essex
Joined: July 8, 2009
 "Who has ever opined otherwise?"

Umm, most people here chasing that last bit of resolution / detail/imaging.
In fact the raison d'etre (that's reason for existence for people like you) for most high end audio is that people are willing to spend big bucks for that elusive last 5%.
My point was that for musicians, that is meaningless.

It's really not that obvious now, is it?
Sometimes when a master talks/writes, he/she can make complicated things appear simple and obvious.
Don't fool yourself into thinking that what I am saying is obvious. It;s a lot deeper. But you need intellectual honesty and a modicum of education to get it.

I suppose that rules you and several denizens on this forum out.

Ahh well...maybe i'll just go. THis is a waste of time here.

Just Joe
Blind testing of gear works: If it doesn't sound better with your eyes closed, then it doesn't sound better!
LOL, posted on October 22, 2009 at 11:52:32
kerr
Audiophile

Posts: 3695
Location: Central Indiana
Joined: November 10, 2003
 >Sometimes when a master talks/writes, he/she can make complicated things appear simple and obvious.
>Ahh well...maybe i'll just go. THis is a waste of time here. <

Don't leave us, Master!!!

Your post is an example of one of the main reasons I remain here at AA. The ridiculously high esteem with which the average lunatic fringe objectivist geek holds himself never fails to provide me with belly laughs... which are, in and of themselves, healthy. After reading hundreds of posts by such LFO geeks, I may live to be 150. Unless, of course, I fall off my chair laughing and break my spine or something. :)
Oh, save us from our wretched desires! :) -nt, posted on October 22, 2009 at 10:35:10
E-Stat
Audiophile

Posts: 9838
Location: Central boonies
Joined: May 12, 2000
Contributor
  Since: April 5, 2002
 rw

Looks like we've all got what we quietly hoped and prayed for:..., posted on October 22, 2009 at 08:20:26
carcass93
Audiophile

Posts: 2634
Location: NJ
Joined: September 20, 2006
 Richard Bassnut Greene replacement, as omnipresent figure of certain kind here at AA.

It tells us..., posted on October 22, 2009 at 04:20:39
kerr
Audiophile

Posts: 3695
Location: Central Indiana
Joined: November 10, 2003
 ...musicians are very adept at hearing the music with a background of distortion, noise and grain.

It tells us..., posted on October 22, 2009 at 03:46:37
gofish
Audiophile

Posts: 20
Location: Brooklyn
Joined: November 28, 2004
 Pick one below I am sure there are others

That musicians:

as a whole don't make a lot of money.

don't bring their work home with them.

have blown out their hearing by the time they have enough money to afford better audio systems

are percentage wise just like the rest of the population when it comes to Hi End

Hi End is a fraud and we are all deluded

nothing

Speak up...(nt), posted on October 21, 2009 at 21:10:15
mkuller
Audiophile

Posts: 15929
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: April 22, 2003
Contributor
  Since: December 28, 2003
 (nt)

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