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DIY romex AWG8 power cord?

208.252.179.27
Posted on October 25, 2009 at 08:06:18
Ric
Audiophile

Posts: 48
Joined: October 14, 2001
 Recently, an electrician left a piece of Romex at the job and I decided to make a pc using these knockoff ebayed oyaide pieces of crap, (I know, I know, but they were cheap to play around with) put on each end of what looks like a twisted three wire configuration with a bare ground. The wire reads romex simpull (tm) awg8 cu 3 with awg10 ground. They barely fit into the oyaidewannabes, but did, and this pc sounds better than any of my other cables which includes a popular $120 pc from a well know establishment. What I am hearing is better definition and a more somehow relaxed sound. This is without break in, so perhaps I am hearing something else. Keep in mind this wire is stiffer than a Viagran in heat. Those of you in the know, if you can offer any reason/advice why not to use this, or how you would modify it to improve it, would be appreciated. The wire is stranded and the knockoffs are p029 and C029 copies. Thanks and happy listening!

All true are the posts below., posted on October 28, 2009 at 20:48:36
jea48
Audiophile

Posts: 3544
Location: Midwest
Joined: January 5, 2005
 If the cord you made is somewhat short and protected from physical damage.... well....

Just don't put it on the market for sale.

RE: All true are the posts below., posted on October 29, 2009 at 07:11:45
Ric
Audiophile

Posts: 48
Joined: October 14, 2001
 I think that's a good point, looking at the mapleshape helix cords. I would never sell a romex cable and try to pass it off as a pc. What I did was an experiment and was surprised at the improvement in sound. This cord does not even touch the floor, so in this application it's ok for those of us who are willing to bend the rules somewhat. Sometimes I think there's a bit too much of a focus on safety, not that I don't understand. In the vinyl section, I recommended putting your nails up to the blast of a cheap steam cleaner and that was met with the need to use gloves, not get to close, etc. My point of view in that case was, if it doesn't hurt your fingers or a surface, it will probably clean your records because it is not a strong enough blast (these things don't clean surfaces worth a shit), but there are some who would never do that because the instructions. I DO understand the need to be VERY careful with electrical applications, and I am NOT recommending to anyone they try anything that seems unsafe to them. What about the mapleshade PC's?

"if you can offer any reason/advice why not to use this", posted on October 27, 2009 at 05:40:26
jimmyjames
Audiophile

Posts: 3176
Location: Raleighwood
Joined: February 20, 2001
 Let's see, not safe as Romex is not designed or mfrd or rated for "drop cord/portable cord" use, not UL listed for the application, it is in violation of national electrical code, if it causes a fire, injury or death, you will play hell getting your insurance company to pay for anything. Buy an Iron Lung Jelly Fish cable off of the Asylum classifieds for $30. Sounds good and is safe and UL listed.

"E pur si muove...And yet it moves"
RE: "if you can offer any reason/advice why not to use this", posted on October 27, 2009 at 07:19:25
Ric
Audiophile

Posts: 48
Joined: October 14, 2001
 Correct me if I'm wrong, but the cable also says on it: E18679 UL, wouldn't that make it UL listed? What's this about insurance company and fires? Are you saying that because the wire is listed as Romex, that there is not significant insulation to protect it from malfunctioning perhaps because there is no rubber around it to protect from nicks etc.?
What I'm trying to ask about is sound quality when compared to other cables. To dismiss that question and raise one about insurance companies and fires seems, well, inflammatory. Yes, these wires (romex) are designed for in wall application and not ostensibly to be used as a power cord. Perhaps you can tell me HOW the fire would happen, short of miswiring or nicking the surface etc. There are easier ways to burn your house down.

Risk issue isn't sound; sound issue isn't risk, posted on October 28, 2009 at 19:19:36
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 3514
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 Two different issues. And in this litigious age (and not knowing whom we are really dealing with in this actually anonymous medium) it pays to state the disclaimer and warning. I'm sure we've all met lawyers by now, and some of us are lawyers!

Unfortunately, most of the stuff we DIY might be cause for an insurance company to try to deny coverage in case of fire or other electrical accident. They'll take any excuse and it's our own risk if we give them that excuse.

For sound and what I'd hope might be reasonably safe construction, look up Jon Risch's posts on using Romex from years ago. I'm pretty sure he did post one PC recipe with Romex.

For risk, well, it scares the crap out of me when inmates use the word "dampening" when what they mean is "damping". Because if they really dampened anything electrical, we get smoked turkey without the dressing!

RE: Risk issue isn't sound; sound issue isn't risk, posted on October 30, 2009 at 11:31:02
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 7500
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Hey Bart,

Reading these posts makes me wonder. Are there any store bought pcs that ARE UL rated?

None of the big companies seem to mention that on any of their cords.

And if you use something like the belden that says it is UL rated and terminate it, would the insurance company still screw you?


RE: Risk issue isn't sound; sound issue isn't risk, posted on October 30, 2009 at 14:45:02
jea48
Audiophile

Posts: 3544
Location: Midwest
Joined: January 5, 2005
 Shunyata power cords for one are UL listed....
Something to keep in mind, individual products may carry the UL label but when you put these same products together this does not make the assembly UL listed. The assembly would have to be tested and then listed.

Then there is this.... An electrician, or for that matter a maintenance electrician, can make up a power cord for a customer or employer using UL listed products and that is fine.....
RE: Risk issue isn't sound; sound issue isn't risk, posted on October 30, 2009 at 14:56:21
Dawnrazor
Audiophile

Posts: 7500
Location: N. California
Joined: April 9, 2004
 Interesting.

I have some power cords made up of THHN wire which AFAIK is UL rated. I asked my electrician buddy and he said I was ok if I used THHN wire.

Though when I read about certain UL ratings for certain applications I must say I am concerned a bit.

After all this time I actually have a life and to lose it over a powercord and the insurance co is not acceptable....


UL-listing is no guarantee of quality., posted on October 31, 2009 at 13:04:19
Al Sekela
Audiophile

Posts: 8279
Location: Northern California
Joined: February 18, 2002
 The only power cord that I ever had trouble with had a UL label on it. It was a stock IEC cord with molded plug and IEC connector. The cord was used on a tube amp with a lot of standby current. The IEC connector started to melt.

UL listing simply means a third party (recognized by the insurance industry) has reviewed the manufacturing procedures and samples, and found no reason to expect the article to fail due to inherent design or production flaws. It cannot guarantee that all the articles covered by the listing are perfect.

Quality assurance is a big and complex topic, and outside the scope of third-party listing.

As I understand them, the requirements to obtain UL listing would be excessively burdensome for the small-batch manufacturing of things like audiophile power cords.

RE: Risk issue isn't sound; sound issue isn't risk, posted on October 30, 2009 at 16:12:58
jea48
Audiophile

Posts: 3544
Location: Midwest
Joined: January 5, 2005
 I have some power cords made up of THHN wire which AFAIK is UL rated. I asked my electrician buddy and he said I was ok if I used THHN wire.

Ya but in this case THHN is UL listed as building wire and not for use as a power cord. The UL listed material used must be UL approved for the intended use.

I will say though there is less of a safety problem with your THHN pc than a cord someone has made from class 2 speaker cable or worse yet CAT 5 data cable.....

That's a good question., posted on October 30, 2009 at 13:07:50
Duster
Audiophile

Posts: 6818
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 I don't follow UL information as to what AC power delivery system to select or not when it comes to audio applications. Questionable devices are always avoided, however.
RE: "if you can offer any reason/advice why not to use this", posted on October 28, 2009 at 12:01:11
Duster
Audiophile

Posts: 6818
Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: August 25, 2002
 When it comes to unconventional AC delivery methods posted in AA, it's often up to individual Inmates to respond from a position of 'safety first' and I fully agree with that POV.

Opinions about how Romex may sound when used as a component AC power cord will likely need to be searched within the AA archives for various audible evaluations of such.

Romex insulation not designed for flexing or abrasion., posted on October 27, 2009 at 10:05:08
Al Sekela
Audiophile

Posts: 8279
Location: Northern California
Joined: February 18, 2002
 UL listing is for the intended purpose, not for use as a power cord.

You may certainly be careful and not expose the cord to frequent movement or traffic, but agency listing does not take your ability to be careful into account. Power cords have to withstand expected use conditions.

As to how a fire may be started, just imagine someone running a vacuum cleaner over the cord a few times.

Lamp Cord, posted on November 2, 2009 at 13:56:30
MikeWI
Audiophile

Posts: 221
Joined: March 22, 2002
 I agree with most of the regulatory interpretations in this thread from a technical / regulatory standpoint.

From a practical standpoint, I start thinking of UL Listed plastic extension cords and lamp cords with one layer of overmolded plastic insulation. I can't count the number of times I have seen aged, overheated, weathered, UV exposed or chemically damaged examples of this cheap, "approved" stuff with nothing left over large segments but two bare copper multi-stranded wires!

That's OK? Hard to figure!?

Mike

RE: Romex insulation not designed for flexing or abrasion., posted on October 28, 2009 at 13:26:38
Crazy Dave
Audiophile

Posts: 5944
Location: East Coast
Joined: October 4, 2001
 That is a very good point. Scratch that one off the list!

Dave

RE: Romex insulation not designed for flexing or abrasion., posted on October 28, 2009 at 19:02:01
Glen B
Audiophile

Posts: 884
Joined: October 4, 1999
 Even certain UL listed household extension cords come with a warning "not for use where subject to frequent flexing".

I believe Jon Risch posted someting like this, posted on October 25, 2009 at 20:04:09
bartc
Audiophile

Posts: 3514
Location: SF Bay Area
Joined: November 25, 2002
 He was suggesting how to make a good PC from Romex too. Years ago!

Let's see:
1) bigger wire
2) better terminations (even if they are fake Oyaides)
3) probably cleaner regarding oxidation , since they're freshly made.

Any or all of those can contribute to better sound.

But listen after cooking it for at least a week and see if it's truly "better" or just "different".

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