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How to convert OTO Phonoe SE into preamp.

207.216.57.82
Posted on September 30, 2009 at 13:27:05
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 6143
Joined: August 8, 2001
 I am having a brain cramp. Do I not use the Tape Outputs. I have two monoblock amps - want to run the OTO as a preamp. One lead from the tape out to one mono block and the other lead to the other monoblok and turn the source tape dial.

It's real loud with the volume at zero.

Thanks

RE: How to convert OTO Phonoe SE into preamp., posted on October 5, 2009 at 20:46:59
Ken Arrow
Audiophile

Posts: 5
Joined: August 21, 2000
 RGA,

I solved the problem with my SORO PHONO SE (integrated) by putting the pre and power sections into separate chassis... it is not very difficult. The advantage then is a lot more real estate for power supply upgrades etc.. and of course you can then mix and match to your hearts content.

Kind Regards,

Ken

RE: How to convert OTO Phonoe SE into preamp., posted on September 30, 2009 at 16:04:38
Frank E
Audiophile

Posts: 643
Joined: May 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: September 8, 2000
 Don't use the Tape Outputs as they are connected to the wiper of your selector switch ahead of your balance and volume controls and receive the full, unattentuated signal directly from whatever source is selected.

Use the Pre Out connectors if you have them, as they are attentuated by the volume control and are also buffered by the line stage, if your version of Oto has one.

BTW, what monos are replacing the Oto power stage?

One very important thing . . ., posted on September 30, 2009 at 16:18:48
Frank E
Audiophile

Posts: 643
Joined: May 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: September 8, 2000
 is to find out from Audio Note if it's OK to run your Oto without a load on the speaker terminals. A lot of tube amps need some loading to prevent the possiblity of overvoltages on power section components.

RE: One very important thing . . ., posted on October 1, 2009 at 00:13:28
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 6143
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Frank - As you may know I'm now a reviewer for dagogo. I assumed that the OTO had the capability of being a preamp because it is basically an M1 Phono preamp and a P1SS or P2SE (I forget which) in one case.

I am reviewing a pair of 150 watt hybrid monoblocks (300 watts into 4 ohms) so I remembered (obviously incorrectly) that I could run an RCA from the tape out to each monoblock. I put the needle down and the volume as you can well imagine was extremely loud. So before the song even started up came the arm. Disconnected the settings.

I am also reviewing a preamp dac. I connected the RCA outputs to each monoblock (no phono) and tried again. WAM full volume - fortunately it was a guitar intro and not something with either bass or treble content but it scared the hell out of me.

The AN J's are fortunately quite fine. Definitely be buying some cheap speakers when I first try to run anything. The preamp is mainly sold as a DAC/headphone amp so it's possible I was supposed to flip an internal switch (I had to do that with my old Arcam Integrated to convert it into a preamp) but the instruction manual made no such mention.

I don't know where I was under the impression that an integrated could be converted into a preamp through the tape outs. Frankly, most companies should probably do away with tape in and outputs - the technology has been dead for 15 years - I'd rather see some other connections - like a preamp output or USB.

Cheers,

RE: One very important thing . . ., posted on October 1, 2009 at 13:32:34
Frank E
Audiophile

Posts: 643
Joined: May 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: September 8, 2000
 I'm happy to hear that the J's are OK.

Most of us could live without the Tape I/O jacks and it would mean one less switch in the audio path. Some people still use the Tape loop to insert attenuators, equalizers and the like in the audio chain.

The Oto SE should be equivalent to the M2 plus P1SE, because of it' AN-designated level 2 status.

Maybe Peter would lend you an M2 or M3 Phono for review. Heaven knows that you're one of the best promoters the brand has ever had. :)

I use a pair of RS Minimus 7 for testing. They're small, an easy load, don't sound half-bad for that purpose, and there are tons of them around. It would be nice to get an economical pair of AX-2's; maybe some beatup ones that are cheap. Though I've never seen any like that.

RE: One very important thing . . ., posted on October 4, 2009 at 14:23:13
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 6143
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Hi and thanks

Okay so the OTO definitely can't be used as a preamp. So my idea was to either buy a used cheap good preamp - $250-$400 used. But I'dhave to be going back a lot of years for something to be considered usable as a reference level amp.

My alternate idea is to try and trade the OTO straight across for a post 2004 (the newer design) M3 - but dealers like making money :-) so the question for them would be "can I make more money selling a used OTO Phonoe SE or a used M3 Phono? An M2 Phono SE might be possible. It would be an upgrade over the OTO but then I'd have no power amp stage except the ones on loan for review. This is ok in that there are plenty of used inexpensive power amps on the market - an Arcam Delta 290P for instance goes for $200 - $250) but it's not Audio Note and it has that SS type of sound.

The issue then becomes is the M2 with a ss power amp (or cheap tube power amp) better than an OTO?

Champaigne ears with a beer budget (or Mozart ears - almost said Beethoven LOL - with Marilyn Manson budget).

I picked up a used set of Tannoy speakers for $50 to use as tester speakers. CR 650. I figure I may be using them as tester's but I would like something that sounds respectable. And Tannoy always sounds respectable and sometimes better.
RE: One very important thing . . ., posted on October 3, 2009 at 09:29:21
R Browne
Audiophile

Posts: 640
Location: So. Cal.
Joined: January 14, 2002
 Actually the OTO SE is the integrated version of the M1 pre and P1 SE amp combination. Check with Audio Note if it is safe to run the OTO as a pre-amp. There could be issues. Or just get an equivalent M1 pre-amp to use.

"M1 pre", posted on October 3, 2009 at 10:25:41
Frank E
Audiophile

Posts: 643
Joined: May 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since: September 8, 2000
 You're probably right about that for the most. The SS power supply would likely put the Oto pre in the same class as the M1. I was thinking more of previous versions of Oto SE which had 2 - 12AU7 for linestage section and was similar to the linestage of earlier M2's. But the SS PS would be the determining factor. M1 it is.

One thing for sure, the 150W hybrid monos should have plenty of drive for the AN-J's.

I use the loop for headphone amps, posted on October 2, 2009 at 17:37:56
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 8435
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 Esp, if the source has only one output.

I also think you may be doing the amps you are reviewing an injustice by using the OTO preamp...if the monos are "high class" you need at least something like an M-3 or up.
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
Does the OTO have a tape or monitor out?, posted on November 18, 2009 at 03:06:58
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 8435
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 My Meishu does and so do all my preamps. This is - roughly speaking - a direct connection from your selected input to the tape output. It does not go through the gain stage of the preamp; it is therefore unaffected by the volume control. It just passes the signal through and around everything. The amp (or preamp) does not even need to be switched on.

Are we talking about the same thing.
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
RE: I use the loop for headphone amps, posted on October 4, 2009 at 14:08:49
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 6143
Joined: August 8, 2001
 That's been my thinking for awhile and why I have requested less expensive items for review - because they tend to fit with things. Although I have felt that what you can get from Audio Note tends to hang with a lot of big budget gear from competitors. It's not about the money spent it's what you buy with your budget. I auditioned a $3k AN cd player a few years ago against the juggernaut Linn CD player at ten times the price. IMO the AN was the one that sounded like the $30,000 player. The fact that an M3 is better than an M1 while true doesn't mean that the M1 doesn't hang in with a lot of competing $8k preamps.

:-)

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