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DAC 2.1 Sig vs DAC 2.1 Level C Sig Kit

122.106.87.108
Posted on September 22, 2009 at 14:08:00
ajobwelldone
Audiophile

Posts: 1
Joined: September 22, 2009
 Although I'm sure this topic has been covered at some point I cannot find any reference to it.
Basically I wish to know which is the better DAC. The 2.1 Signature (pre made) or the 2.1 Level C Signature Kit? I am a little confused as to the difference between the two.
Thanks in advance

RE: DAC 2.1 Sig vs DAC 2.1 Level C Sig Kit, posted on September 22, 2009 at 14:19:33
AudioNoteKits
Manufacturer

Posts: 233
Location: Canada
Joined: May 29, 2004
Contributor
  Since: May 28, 2004
 Good question! Many customers were asking for the transformer coupled output version of the DAC kit level B - we called the new version the C version which has led to a little confusion - we are just about to rename the transformer coupled series to the DAC3.1 Series with Balanced and RCA output - also this way the kit and finished products line up better - AN finished product transformer coupled series start in the 3.1 series - Check out the kits web site and by the end of the week you will be able to see the announcement for the new DAC3.1 Series - feel free to email audionotekits@rogers.com if you have further questions - thanks Brian

RE: DAC 2.1 Sig vs DAC 2.1 Level C Sig Kit, posted on September 23, 2009 at 09:15:51
DougE
Audiophile

Posts: 170
Joined: March 23, 2001
 I owned a 2.1xSig (factory) and have fiddled with several 2.1 kits, including the level C. So, I figure I will jump in with my thoughts...

The differences in circuit I can't say for sure, but they are not exactly the same. One main difference is that the level C uses output tx, where the factory Sig is a cap-coupled output. While you can get the tx output on factory, they are the "balanced" models and there are other changes as well that are included.

Overall, the performance of the kit 2.1 C is very, very good. It compares favorably with the factory, although it is different in presentation. In fact, at least one of my audio buds who compared his kit to my factory far and away preferred the kit. I admit, it was much more full-range sounding. Probably what led me to getting a new dac myself...

"Much more full range sounding"?, posted on September 25, 2009 at 09:21:07
Frihed89
Audiophile

Posts: 8435
Location: Copenhagen
Joined: March 21, 2005
 What does that mean?

Is it a good thing or a bad thing for your ears?

The aspect of AN Dacs i like so much is that they make the music feel both very real and easy to listen to. This is enhanced by using AN equipment all the way downstream...if one can. I "only" have a Dac 1.1 x/II Sig in my CD player, but it is by far the best-sounding unit I have ever owned, even without OPTs.
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
RE: "Much more full range sounding"?, posted on September 26, 2009 at 18:11:11
DougE
Audiophile

Posts: 170
Joined: March 23, 2001
 What I mean is that there are more highs and lows with the kit level C vs the 2.1xSig factory. The factory 2.1Sig has a wonderful tonal quality but it favors the midrange far more than the kit C does. When switching back and forth it was easy to pick out the factory as not reaching as high or low. Frankly, I was not as quick as my friend to choose one over the other, as the factory was extraordinarily easy to listen to with a lushness that the kit didn't have. All told, however, the kit C showed me what I was missing on either end of the spectrum and so I decided to get a new dac in search of those plus the great mids of the factory.

It seems we are in agreement as to why we like AN sound. As you describe it, I completely understand what you are saying about making the music feel real and easy to listen to. Generally, I find when the top end gets super detailed without the low end becoming more extended the sound gets hot and I don't like it. With the kit C, there was a good balance.

RE: "Much more full range sounding"?, posted on October 6, 2009 at 10:12:59
goldlizsts
Audiophile

Posts: 9
Location: NYC
Joined: November 28, 2005
 I am considering an AN DAC, but confused with the configurations and their performances (sound-wise of course). I would appreciate someone in this column shed some light, so I can decide. The 3.1, as far as I know, uses the 5687 tube, and the 2.1 uses 6922. the 5687 is supposed to be a very clean working tube, and has oomph also (drive?, extensions on both ends). But... is it that the 2.1 is better in the mids (what you guys have been saying)? Are the frequency extremes satisfactory at all? Supposedly, AN is to come out with a 6SN7 board (vs. the 6922 version). That's my dilemma, what to run with. I need to learn more about what should be my ultimate decision (which version to buy). Also, did I read somewhere that given the same model, the kit version would perform differerntly (sound-wise) than the factory version? I am leaning toward the kit, simply because of cost.

Any comment here would be appreciated.
RE: "Much more full range sounding"?, posted on October 7, 2009 at 09:11:48
DougE
Audiophile

Posts: 170
Joined: March 23, 2001
 Ok, let me see if I can help. You ask at least 2 questions: first, tube types; second, kit v factory sound.

The tube type is easy--yes, the factory 2.1 uses 6922 and 3.1 and up uses 5687 (or other variants). There could be a connection between the tube type used and the difference in sound but I'd think that there's more of a difference due to the actual componentry differences between the higher level dacs. For one, on the factory dacs there are different interstage transformers which I believe change when you move from the 2.1 to 3.1. There are many, many other differences but this is one that is very pricey and has potential for making quite a change in sound.

As for sound itself, I owned the 2.1xSig factory for several years and liked the sound enormously. Yes, it was more limited on the extremes than the higher models and also compared to the Kit. But, it is a very dense and rich sound that is in line with what I hear from most level 1 to 3 AN gear. The Kit is a similar animal but has some different components designed for AN Kits, and they give a sound more like the higher level factory dacs in that they are more extended up and down. However, there are differences! I haven't listened side by side between my 4.1bal and the kit so I can't comment conclusively, but I'd speculate from the separate listening of each that the 4.1 retains the density of the factory 2.1 while extending up and down like the kit. Of course, this is at a cost--the 4.1 even used is about 2 times the price of the kit. New, it's...well, a lot!

The Kit dac is extraordinary value and a tremendous performer. Plus, you get the fun of building!

RE: "Much more full range sounding"?, posted on October 8, 2009 at 00:33:10
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 6143
Joined: August 8, 2001
 You know I think the kits should not really be compared to the factory models - you pay more you expect to get more.

What should be done is to compare a Dac Kit to every other companies' DACs - now let's see what happens.

RE: "Much more full range sounding"?, posted on October 8, 2009 at 10:38:33
AstroSonic
Audiophile

Posts: 814
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Joined: January 25, 2003
 The kits are not kit-versions of the factory-built models. They must be judged on their own terms. therefore it is appropriate to compare the kits with other dacs within a persons budget.

The kits should offer better performance than similarly priced factory-built models because you are supplying labor (assuming good system matching). For same-price units, the kits can incorporate better (or more) parts in place of labor. Given that the kits and factory-built models have the same designer, there is likely to be broad similarity (sonics, topology and features) between them. Their is always the chance that a person might prefer one unit over another, regardless of cost. It is all about matching components for the best synergy (hence the AN 'levels').

Regards,

Bob

RE: "Much more full range sounding"?, posted on October 10, 2009 at 11:25:56
RGA
Reviewer

Posts: 6143
Joined: August 8, 2001
 Do the kits follow the levels?

For instance the M2 is a production level 2 preamp - Is the L3 from AN Kits a level 3?

I agree that people may prefer one product over another - I know a guy who likes the sound of my OTO over the Meishu (I prefer the Meishu) but I get where he's coming from.

RE: "Much more full range sounding"?, posted on October 13, 2009 at 10:58:06
AstroSonic
Audiophile

Posts: 814
Location: SE Pennsylvania
Joined: January 25, 2003
 I don't know what the correspondence is between the kits and factory-made lines. Perhaps Brian can answer that.

I think the 'levels' are good general guidance: much more than you get from most companies. However, for those of us with components of 'mixed' origin (i.e., some non-AN pieces), the levels are less helpful.

If the other kits are as well designed and executed as my DAC Kit 2.1 Level C Sig. (now called a 3.1 Level A Sig.?), then it is a fairly safe assumption that, for most people, the kits will provide better performance than the similarly priced factory-made pieces. This benefit is not 'free' of course. You must build the dac!

Bob

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