Amp/Preamp Asylum

Looking for a new Amp or Preamp? If you're after tubes, post over here.

Return to Amp/Preamp Asylum


Message Sort: Post Order or Asylum Reverse Threaded

Best Subwoofer Connection

24.190.182.120

Posted on January 2, 2017 at 15:10:37
RandyB&W
Audiophile

Posts: 271
Joined: February 20, 2002
OK, so I'm waiting on delivery of a JL Audio e110 subwoofer. I have a 2 channel setup. The on-line manual recommends connecting the preamp outs to the subwoofer's line in (l/r), and then going from the sub's line outs to the power amp. OTOH, I could just go from the second set of preamp outs to the sub's line in and run the signal in parallel without using the sub's internal xover. Which connection is preferred and best for a music only setup? I've searched this issue here, but I haven't found an answer that makes sense to me. Thanks.

 

Hide full thread outline!
    ...
RE: Best Subwoofer Connection, posted on January 2, 2017 at 15:49:34
pictureguy
Audiophile

Posts: 6889
Location: SoCal
Joined: October 19, 2008
If the subs crossover is in play, I'd try THAT even with the additional connection complexity. Running the mains AND the sub over an overlap of frequencies will 'muddy' the sound, in my experience.
When I got my mains out of the way using a low-cut filter, that cleaned up the bass DRAMATICALLY.
Too much is never enough

 

RE: Best Subwoofer Connection, posted on January 2, 2017 at 16:25:23
ppopp
Audiophile

Posts: 2586
Location: OR
Joined: October 10, 2002
I would do as the manual states. Because if the subwoofer takes what it can do well with, and leaves the rest for your speakers, you will have the most effective signal distribution.
Why have the sub' and the speakers delivering a total of double to amount of signal on certain frequencies?

 

RE: Best Subwoofer Connection, posted on January 2, 2017 at 17:10:50
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 10459
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
I agree with the other comments.

 

RE: Best Subwoofer Connection, posted on January 2, 2017 at 17:18:20
RandyB&W
Audiophile

Posts: 271
Joined: February 20, 2002
Kal ... I'm a bit confused. If I go from the preouts to the line in (and run the mains full), then I can use the external xover via the controls. If I go from the sub's line out to the amp in, does that mean I have no control over the xover, and it just is what it is internally? Sorry to ask somewhat noob questions, but I have had very little experience with subs.

 

RE: Best Subwoofer Connection, posted on January 2, 2017 at 18:33:38
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 10459
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
By external crossover, do you mean the one in the e110?

You do not want to run the mains full-range. Connect the preamp output to the sub's line in and the sub's line out to the power amps.
"Analog inputs are provided for unbalanced line-level signals or speaker level signals. Dedicated line outputs are included to make a bi-amped system arrangement with no additional hardware required. Useful in combating ground-related noise problems, a rear panel switch configures the line level inputs as grounded or isolated.
The E-Sub's active crossover is a true two-way, 4th order Linkwitz-Riley design, with a low-pass filter feeding the subwoofer's amplifier and a high-pass filtered signal exiting its line outputs."

 

RE: Best Subwoofer Connection, posted on January 2, 2017 at 18:45:10
RandyB&W
Audiophile

Posts: 271
Joined: February 20, 2002
Thank you, Kal, and to everyone else who commented. Your assistance is much appreciated.

 

RE: Best Subwoofer Connection, posted on January 3, 2017 at 07:27:19
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 8447
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
I would use any other method that does not have the signal coming into the plate amp and then to your speakers.

Me - right now I am using a dedicated line from my preamp to the subs. But I do plan on changing that in the future when I get a new plate amp. Then I plan on just tapping off the speaker to the high level input on the plate amp.

 

RE: Best Subwoofer Connection, posted on January 3, 2017 at 08:18:19
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 20309
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
January 29, 2004
Wow! It seems pretty easy to try both configurations and pick the one that sounds best to you. Anyway, I think that's what I would do.

Good luck,
John Elison

 

RE: Best Subwoofer Connection, posted on January 4, 2017 at 05:54:27
JURB
Audiophile

Posts: 215
Location: North Ohio
Joined: May 29, 2016
I would do as the manual says and use the crossover they provide. The reason is the same reason that multiple drivers and crossovers in speakers are used - at the very least, less IM distortion.

If you run the full range speakers direct you are likely to have to turn the bass down and the chances of the turnover being just right are slim and none and slim has not been seen in a while. So that'll warp your bass response, not quite what you bought subs for.

Also, you would have bass coming out of four sources rather than two. Unless you stack your full range right on top of the subs that makes placement more of a PITA.

Personally, I would be tempted to use the full range as full range and the subs right under them and fix it with an equalizer because I am a bass junkie. However setting that could prove a bit tricky. I like alot of bass but only good, well defined bass. I am quite sensitive to it actually, to the point of not liking ported speakers. the rolloff at the bottom is too steep.

But really, if you want flat response I would use the crossovers AND put the highs (no longer full range once through the crossover) right on top of them anyway.

 

RE: Best Subwoofer Connection, posted on January 4, 2017 at 06:47:19
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 8447
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
With all the attention, money, speaker cables, high quality crossover parts, expensive drivers, WHY !!! would you want to put a cheaply made crossover before your speakers????

Did you ever open one of those amps up and actually look at that crossover. You might as well be using Radioshack parts for your speakers crossover.

The "sound/funtion" of a subwoofer is so imprecise and non directional, that a few HZ either way is NOT going to matter much.

Just hook up your sub the best way it sounds to you.

 

RE: Best Subwoofer Connection, posted on January 4, 2017 at 10:42:31
John Elison
Audiophile

Posts: 20309
Location: Central Kentucky
Joined: December 20, 2000
Contributor
  Since:
January 29, 2004
What's wrong with testing the subs both ways and picking the configuration that sounds best. Some subwoofers don't have built-in high-pass crossovers. Mine don't! Therefore, I run my main speakers full-range and set my subs for 50-Hz low-pass. My system sounds great!

Did you know that using a high-pass filter on the main speakers will alter phase response well into the upper bass and lower midrange? My Thiel speakers are linear-phase speakers and I do not want to destroy their phase response with high-pass filters.


 

RE: Best Subwoofer Connection, posted on January 4, 2017 at 15:59:28
RandyB&W
Audiophile

Posts: 271
Joined: February 20, 2002
UPDATE: The e110 arrived today, and I've tried it both ways. Running the N804s full range with the sub filling in the bottom end is much more engaging amd satisfying to my ears. When I put the sub between the preamp and the amp, the sound became thin and lifeless. Perhaps that's because having one 10" sub to carry all of the lower bass makes little sense in a set up with full range speakers. I could see putting the sub between components when running monitors which don't go down below 60 Hz or if I had 2 e110s. By running the N804s full range, I get the benefit of four 6.5" woofers plus the e110. The sound is very full, although I think I need to get used to articulate bass instead of the boomy, flabby bass I've experienced with other subs. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 

RE: Best Subwoofer Connection, posted on January 4, 2017 at 17:42:52
airtime
Audiophile

Posts: 8447
Location: Arizona
Joined: February 4, 2003
You go and do what sounds best for you! Go play!!

 

And how did you adjust/balance the two setups? (NT), posted on January 4, 2017 at 18:37:19
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 10459
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002


 

RE: And how did you adjust/balance the two setups? (NT), posted on January 4, 2017 at 18:57:33
RandyB&W
Audiophile

Posts: 271
Joined: February 20, 2002
In both configurations, I made various adjustments to phase, volume and crossover until it sounded right to me. I also used an SPL meter. With the sub in between components, the sound seemed thin and uninviting. But, running the mains full and having the sub fill in at the low end @60 Hz, the sound is full. Granted, in your review you used two subs in between components, which may have filled out the sound to make up for not running your Silver 8s full range. I wonder, though, if speakers are not run full range, does that serve to change the essential aural character of the speaker? It's one thing to simply add some bottom end, but it may be another to prevent the speaker from functioning the way it was designed. Just a thought. In any event, I will have to still play around with it a bit.

 

RE: And how did you adjust/balance the two setups? (NT), posted on January 4, 2017 at 19:48:21
Kal Rubinson
Reviewer

Posts: 10459
Location: New York
Joined: June 5, 2002
I did use only one e110 off and on and the difference was only noted on certain source materials. Using either one or two did not change the character of my main speakers (MA Silver8) with a full crossover. OTOH, I do not use the crossover in the e110 and that may be the difference. A more sophisticated crossover with EQ is a different animal.

 

RE: And how did you adjust/balance the two setups? (NT), posted on January 4, 2017 at 20:09:26
RandyB&W
Audiophile

Posts: 271
Joined: February 20, 2002
Kal ... Currently, I'm using the e110 xover using only the line in. I know some of this is room specific, but I've got the volume set at 1:00 o'clock, phase at 9:00 o'clock, xover at 60 Hz, and polarity at zero. Please forgive my naivete, but do those settings appear reasonable to you?

 

Page processed in 0.024 seconds.