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REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS)

173.49.140.240

Posted on January 2, 2013 at 09:40:15
hifi heretic
Audiophile

Posts: 898
Location: Suburban Philadelphia
Joined: February 22, 2003
Model: MA6600
Category: Integrated Amplifier (SS)
Suggested Retail Price: $6000
Description: Integrated Amplifier
Manufacturer URL: McIntosh
Model Picture: View

Review by hifi heretic on January 02, 2013 at 09:40:15
IP Address: 173.49.140.240
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for the MA6600


I've owned my McIntosh MA6600 for just over a year now and though it appropriate to share my impressions.

Why an integrated amp?
I prefer the tidiness of integrated amps. Plus, I've always had fewer problems with hum and hiss with integrateds which is ironic because the argument for separates has generally been that by separating the power and pre sections you reduce hum/noise. ..For me, the opposite has always been true.

Why McIntosh:
Though absurdly expensive for an unnecessary appliance, I love the look, tactile feel, and build quality of Mac gear. Plus, as much of my music is the product of rather imperfect recording techniques, I insist on having simple tone controls (bass/treble), mono switch and a balance control. The argument against these controls has been that they deteriorate the signal, but I believe this to be a myth. ..Usually, they're left at zero doing no harm, but when listening to an overly dull or bright album, or if my dishes are rattling in the cupboards, I find a slight tweaking of one or both to be enough to make the song more enjoyable.

And the mono switch is equally indispensable when listening to recordings from the early days of stereo when engineers often had voices coming from one speaker and instruments from the other making the recording unlistenable from any seating position other than dead center.

Lastly, although I harbor no grudges toward foreign products (my house is filled with them, including the apple macbook I'm typing on), I kinda like that Mac gear is built just a few hours away in a small mill town in NY.

What I like about the MA6600:
Again the build quality is fabulous. On the outside, the knobs have a very solid feel, rotate perfectly straight, and the switches have a solid "click" to them. ..Peering inside of the unit you find picture perfect soldering, cleanly laid PC boards, etc.. I'm a stickler for fit/finish and this component over delivers in this respect both inside and out.

As for sonic indications of quality, there's much of this as well: Unlike the B&K 202+/ Pro10mc & Bryston 3Bsst/BP25 power/pre combos that preceded it, the MA6600 is dead silent when no source is playing and the volume is turned wayyy up. I don't hear ANY hum, hiss. Likewise, when the source is paused but another input has a signal (like my TV Cable box which is always on) I hear ZERO signal bleed through even a full gain. Both the B&K and Bryston combos had tons of this. Also, I love that as I turn the volume down, each channel attenuates at the same rate all the way to zero gain. I often listen at very quiet levels and am bothered when I have to adjust the balance to equalize the volume b/w channels. The B&K was okay in this respect, but the Bryston had to go back to the factory to be adjusted for this problem (and was not completely fixed). None of these issues are likely to diminish listening enjoyment during normal circumstances, but to my thinking they are indicative of engineering and build quality.

There are also some unique features that are made possible by the micro-processor controlled pre-amp that I find indispensable. For example, I love being able to carefully match the volume levels for each input. My turntable, Squeezebox, Apple Mini, and Cable Box, all seem to have different output voltages which means huge swings in volume when switching b/w inputs. I love being able to eliminate this problem - indeed a wonderful feature.

The controversial "Blue Meters":
To McIntosh devotees, the hallmark blue meters are an endearing and unique design feature; to McIntosh detractors, they're a silly gimmick that add needlessly to the cost of Mac gear. Though it is true they serve no essential purpose and certainly add something to their cost, you can put me in the first camp. Ever worried about over-driving my speakers (Paradigm Signature S8 v2) I like being able to refer to the meters to make sure that I'm well below the danger zone. ..In fact, I was very surprised to find that even when I'm nearing the point of deafening my children and inviting a visit from the cops, I'm still only around 20 watts. This is due to my speakers being rather efficient (92db/watt) and moderate sized listening room.

Sound:
Well, sorry to disappoint. But I'm not going to give my impression of what the amp sounds like. Suffice to say, McIntosh has engineered this amp to "quietly" drive any real-world speaker to deafening levels without any hint of strain. And it does this beautifully. I'm sure the audio wine-tasters will chime in, but to my ears - which I should point out measure quite well and are quite keenly attuned to musical nuance - all modern amps which are engineered to be linear and are operating within their limits sound pretty much alike these days. So for those wanting to know about it's PRAT, imaging, bass tightness, etc.. you'll have to read the (always quite glowing) reviews found elsewhere.

What I don't like:
Though the MA6600 has the tone and balance controls I require, I would prefer that these functions be controlled directly by dedicated knobs on the front rather than engaged through a menu. Obviously, some Mac Pre-amps and Integrated amps offer this, but not the MA6600. Nonethless, I need to only turn the "Trim Select" knob two clicks and I'm at Treble, then one more for bass. Not a big deal.


Product Weakness: (See above) tone controls accessed via menu
Product Strengths: (See above) Internal/ External build quality; sensible feature set


Associated Equipment for this Review:

Amplifier: McIntosh MA6600
Preamplifier (or None if Integrated): None
Sources (CDP/Turntable): Apple Mini-based Music Server; Arcam rDac; Apple TV; Technics SL1200mk2 TT
Speakers: Paradigm Signature S8 v2 Floor-standers
Cables/Interconnects: generic
Music Used (Genre/Selections): All genres; too many artists to lists
Room Size (LxWxH): 15 x 18 x 10
Time Period/Length of Audition: 12 mos.
Type of Audition/Review: Product Owner


 

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RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 2, 2013 at 10:27:51
DanS
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Posts: 313
Location: EL PASO, TEXAS
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Have you replaced the preamp jumpers? It made a big difference in my MA6600
Dan

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 2, 2013 at 12:26:37
hifi heretic
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Posts: 898
Location: Suburban Philadelphia
Joined: February 22, 2003
With all due respect and appreciation for the tip, I have to say that I'm highly skeptical that changing the jumpers would make a discernible difference, let alone a big one. ..As a recommendation I suggest adding back the original jumper to just one channel, then play a song with the Mono switch engaged. ..Now switch b/w the speakers using the balance control. Do you still hear a "big" difference b/w them?? I'd be very surprised if you do...

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 2, 2013 at 13:03:26
Sprezza Tura
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Curious, what did you replace them with...?

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 2, 2013 at 13:06:09
Sprezza Tura
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Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
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Thanks, nice review.

Are there any professional reviews of this model you are aware of?

$6000 seems like a lot until you consider that it can do HD radio, has 250 wpc on tap, and drive virtually any speaker, and is very customizable..plus the build is off the charts.

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 2, 2013 at 13:53:10
hifi heretic
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Posts: 898
Location: Suburban Philadelphia
Joined: February 22, 2003



Thanks.. Yes, see link for a professional review. This review is entirely positive, which is nice, but the only reviews I really pay much attention to are those with measurements.

Yes, $6k is a lot. ..Indeed a very nice entire system could be assembled for less. My wife bought it for me for our 20th anniv. so it was a special circumstance :) And I did manage to get a small discount that came by way of an over-allowance on a Peachtree Nova that I traded in. They basically credited me the whole $1200 purchase price of the Nova (which was bought elsewhere) so I'm guessing the actual discount to be maybe $500 assuming they were able to resell the Nova for $700. ..I was committed to buying it even at full retail, so I was thankful for any discount.

I've attached a pic of my amp.

 

A "Dislike" I forgot to mention, posted on January 2, 2013 at 14:08:32
hifi heretic
Audiophile

Posts: 898
Location: Suburban Philadelphia
Joined: February 22, 2003
The MA6600 remote is a pretty disappointing affair. ..It's plastic with rubberized buttons and feels only slightly higher quality than our Verizon TV remote. ..It works fine of course, but for $6k it should be better. Plus, I think a second remote with larger buttons for only source and volume would have been nice. The included remote is quite cluttered with buttons which makes in-the-dark use challenging.

By comparison, my Bryston BP25 pre-amp came with a beautiful milled aluminum remote which included just a few functions making it very easy to use.

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 2, 2013 at 14:26:26
Sprezza Tura
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Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
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Thanks! Nice pic!

It is not cheap, but as I stated..this is not some featureless, minimalist amp. Tons of inputs, flexibility, and great looks.

 

And..., posted on January 2, 2013 at 16:18:14
E-Stat
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the one you mention in your profile.

As for the meters, there is no concern about clipping because the *Power Guard* limiter circuit will compress the signal for you.

Even someone who cannot hear clipping won't get into trouble. :)

 

RE: And..., posted on January 2, 2013 at 17:04:27
hifi heretic
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Posts: 898
Location: Suburban Philadelphia
Joined: February 22, 2003
are you taking a shot at Mac owners by claiming they are less able to hear clipping? geez, I hope not.

 

A very, very nice review, posted on January 2, 2013 at 17:41:21
Mike K
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Posts: 13966
Location: 97701
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And dare I say, quite honest and upfront. We all have our prejudices
and preferences and blind spots, and you seem quite willing to admit
yours. I commend you.

Personally, I'm not overly fond of Mac equipment, even though I own
a piece of it (MA 6100) that I am reluctant to sell, perhaps only
because of the possibility of appreciation in future. I do believe
there's much better SS equipment out there (Ayre, Rowland for two)
and tubed too (AR, Bat, Rogue (yes, Rogue)). But Mac has a large
and loyal following, and I can not bring myself to say nasty things
about their offerings.

Mac is rather like a former, much-missed lover: the pleasures you
think she/it provided exceed by some significant fraction the irritations
she/it caused.

Thanks again.

Lack of skill dictates economy of style. - Joey Ramone

 

For some reason, posted on January 2, 2013 at 18:02:02
E-Stat
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Only McIntosh feels their customers *benefit* from the use of limiting circuits. I'll let them explain:

"Power Guard dynamically adjusts the input level to avoid clipping while preventing harsh sounding distortion."

I've always found another way to prevent harsh sounding distortion. :)

 

RE: For some reason, posted on January 2, 2013 at 18:08:17
hifi heretic
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..well, no, not just McIntosh. NAD does something similar. ..But what is your point? I kinda get that you're being snide, but your point eludes me. ..please clarify for me if you will. ..oh, and :)

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 2, 2013 at 18:22:02
Wojciech
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Posts: 4115
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Yes , it's less about sound and more about status , like Rolex watches ;) Phono stage in Ma6500 was nasty and even cheapest Project pre was miles ahead I hope the one in 6600 is better

 

You're right, posted on January 2, 2013 at 18:28:12
E-Stat
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My mid-fi NAD AV receiver offers that feature. Fortunately, they offer a disable switch that I have always used. :)

I kinda get that you're being snide, but your point eludes me

I cannot think of a more worthless *feature* on which to devote expense and superfluous circuitry in which to pass the signal.

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 2, 2013 at 18:50:40
Sprezza Tura
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Location: New York City
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Say what? Nasty? I don't think so.

MAC is hardly status gear..there far more expensive stuff....

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 2, 2013 at 18:58:13
hifi heretic
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Posts: 898
Location: Suburban Philadelphia
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"MAC is hardly status gear"

..agreed. ..Of the dozens of family and friends who have seen my new MA6600, only one or two had ever heard of McIntosh. ..If people are purchasing this gear to buoy their image, they're making a mistake. If that was the goal it would have been better to buy a Bang & Olufsen music system, or even Bose.

As for the phono pre-amp, I find it to be terrific. Like the the rest of the inputs it's incredibly quiet - far quieter, in fact, then either the Pro-Ject of NAD preamps I used with my other integrateds. Granted, neither of those are big buck phono amps.

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 2, 2013 at 19:08:22
Sprezza Tura
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I find this gratuitous McIntosh bashing funny.

There are companies out there selling $35,000 flea watt mono blocks, $65,000 speakers, and even $32,000 interconnects and speaker cables.

There are no less than 10 McIntosh components under $5000.

They need to pick another target. Can't really understand this backlash.

I heard the MC275 driving Martin Logans at a Magnolia recently and it was just stunning.

 

RE: You're right, posted on January 2, 2013 at 19:24:10
hifi heretic
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How exactly does having Power Guard in the signal path hurt the sound when it's not active?? Please be specific. ..Given the amps exemplary channel separation, s/n ratio and extremely low distortion levels, how exactly is the sound negatively affected? ..Again, please be specific.

Oh, and any chance you can leave the sarcastic " :) " off your reply? ..I bet you can't.

 

RE: You're right, posted on January 2, 2013 at 20:05:53
E-Stat
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Please be specific.

Having superfluous active and passive components (comparator and limiting circuits) in the signal path is deleterious to transparency. I cannot state it any simpler. Everything matters.

Given the amps exemplary channel separation, s/n ratio and extremely low distortion levels, how exactly is the sound negatively affected?

Obviously, you've not heard better. Do you really think those simplistic metrics tell the entire tale of what we hear? Really?

If so, why not spend $500 instead and just buy a cheap pro amp? They measure just as well. The glass front panel, meters and all the superfluous circuitry only add about $2k to the price of your amp.

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 2, 2013 at 21:01:27
Wojciech
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If it's not status why would anybody pay the price ;?)Nobody buys Harley Davidson based on performance but for the look and splendor.Nothing wrong with that .The fact that regular people do not pay attention to it ,is down to the fact that audio stuff is of marginal importance to normal people. I'm not against Mac ,and do not subscribe to bashing. In absolute terms those are not bad amps and I expressed my view earlier. Phono stage in Ma6500 is bad sounding. I would even say that most Nad amps have better ones but it is only a convenient add on feature for starters most people couldn't care less for phono but I do ( one would wish little better for the price) I serviced my friend's MA6500. There is nothing extraordinary regarding it's built quality. Rather cheap parts throughout, open frame potentiometers in preamp section and cheap opamps. It is what it is , parts are not everything and the amp sounded very decent. Rgrds, W

 

Pathetic! You obviously haven't listened to Mac Gear., posted on January 2, 2013 at 22:50:43
oldmkvi
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Posts: 10574
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No $500 amp is going to come close.
Power Guard Only come on at the very loudest Symphonic Bass drum, Pipe Organ
for example. No Rock or Jazz cd/SACD will trigger it, except at ridiculously dangerous levels.
Mac can play at Power Guard levels all day, never damaging speakers. Other brands shut down.
Get thee to a Mac Dealer. Unless your ideas are more important than your ears.

 

Did you used to write for Stereo Review? nt, posted on January 2, 2013 at 23:10:49
oldmkvi
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/

 

so you're denigrating a 60+ year old brand..., posted on January 3, 2013 at 05:29:33
hifi heretic
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So you're denigrating a 60+ year old brand that produces well-crafted and reliable gear because of some faint indefinable nuance you call "transparency" that escapes both measurement and identification in blinded trials?

 

I'm denigrating, posted on January 3, 2013 at 05:51:14
E-Stat
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a useless *feature* not found in any other serious brand of audio gear.

Why do you think that is the case?

 

Probably a meaningless feature for me as well..., posted on January 3, 2013 at 06:05:54
hifi heretic
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..Too funny e-stat.

It probably will be a meaningless feature for me as I will never get anywhere near the clipping range of this amp. ..But the other features Mac embraces such as bass/treble/ balance controls, mono switch, input level trim, meters, etc... ARE features that I find to be immensely useful. Why does this bother you so?

Look, we all want to feel good about our gear. ..If being the brunt of your derision helps you to feel better about yours, I'm pleased I can be of service.

 

Actually, I have, posted on January 3, 2013 at 06:15:26
E-Stat
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A pair of 2301s in a particularly nice system. I've also toured the factory and heard their demo system. Very nice folks.

Mac can play at Power Guard levels all day, never damaging speakers. Other brands shut down.

In over forty years, I've never damaged any speakers nor owned any amplifier that has shut down.

The 1981 Threshold Stasis has no protection circuitry at all.

 

Bother?, posted on January 3, 2013 at 06:31:33
E-Stat
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But the other features Mac embraces such as bass/treble/ balance controls, mono switch...

I prefer controlling the HF balance at the speaker to tame particularly bad recordings. Which fortunately is not often. Never had any use for a bass control. There are bass shy recordings to be sure, but you cannot restore what was never captured. Only thicken what is there.

As for the other features in the quote above, you'll find my ARC preamp has them, too.

Why does this bother you so?

You confuse bother(?) with humor. :)

If being the brunt of your derision helps you to feel better about yours

You have already forgotten my original observation. I was trying to reassure you that your fear:

Ever worried about over-driving my speakers (Paradigm Signature S8 v2) I like being able to refer to the meters to make sure that I'm well below the danger zone.

was undeserved given the presence of the limiter circuitry.

If you have any other systems where that remains a concern, you can address it rather inexpensively. I purchased and configured one for my last church. It seems the preacher's dynamic range exceeded the quality of the cassettes and MP3 recordings of his sermons. :)

 

Every Harley I owned , posted on January 3, 2013 at 08:08:23
Was set up for speed, I changed cams, ignition systems, exhausts, flowed the heads and they ripped up the road. I was getting over 115 Rear wheel HP on the dyno and 0 to 100 was in the 11 second range. That was on my 94 dyna wide glide. I have had Electra glides that came off the line and kept up with ninja's on the street. 69 4 cam sporster that ran the qtr in 12


So yes I bought Harleys for Speed. Now could I have bought a Rice Rocket for a 3rd the price that was faster - yes

 

RE: Probably a meaningless feature for me as well..., posted on January 3, 2013 at 08:34:14
rick_m
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Posts: 6230
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Enjoyed your review...

One of the things it reminded me of is how much I use all of the various controls on my preamp (Adcom GTP-500), I'd be lost without them.

I think the anti-feature arguments really pivot around usage. Usually all I need is a volume control and maybe inversion when listening to local music from CD, SACD etc. But for TV, broadcast radio and streaming audio having handles on their often manged sound makes all the difference. I think that audiophiles tend to believe that having less control is purer in some fashion and in some instances that may be the case, it's a matter of implementation.

I've been using the power amp/preamp approach for decades and haven't noticed any problems. It seems like a logical topology to me since the power amplifier requirements are mostly a function of the speakers and the control requirements are a function of the sources. But integrateds and receivers are tidier and can, as you well know, do a great job. And I've always liked the McIntosh front panels...

Congratulations!

Rick

 

If not status, why pay the price??, posted on January 3, 2013 at 10:15:57
hifi heretic
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"If it's not status why would anybody pay the price ;?)"

I thought I pretty much covered that... Yes, the price is high, but for me, the aesthetics, build quality and feature set justified the price. ..Fine if you don't agree - most people wont. As for build quality I've explored the inside of many amplifiers and have never seen any that compare with this; I'm sure there are, but I haven't seen them. ..Not the B&K, the Bryston, NAD, etc.. ..Opinions may differ of course. ..But also remember my observations about how quiet and devoid of signal bleed this amp is. ..How many amps have you owned can you turn all the way up and not hear ANY hiss, hum, or signal bleed from adjacent channels?

And again,... It's most definitely NOT a status symbol. ...Very very few people know anything about the brand or audio in general. ..By comparison, just about everyone knows of Rolex, Harley etc...

 

RE: Bother?, posted on January 3, 2013 at 11:22:04
hifi heretic
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Location: Suburban Philadelphia
Joined: February 22, 2003
I can certainly appreciate that if you have no interest in tone controls that you'd prefer a pre-amp without; this makes perfect sense. But to argue, as you seem to be, that having tone controls somehow diminishes sound quality even when they're not engaged is, IMHO, quite silly and not supported by any empirical evidence that I would consider credible.

When I cue up a song that sounds bright to me, I much prefer being able to make a quick adjustment at the pre-amp. As for Bass, I generally use the bass tone control to reduce bass output, not increase it. ..My system is set up in a family great room where everyone in the family can enjoy it, I don't have it set up in some isolated listening-room where I'm free to hang all types of bass and sound traps, etc.. ..I'm in this for the music, not for some odd purist crusade.

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 3, 2013 at 12:19:02
Wojciech
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I do not disagree that Mac is a quality product as it should be for the price and I'm far from bashing it I hope it was clear. As to the "status" thing ,it's a question of personal conviction and I will stand behind mine:) I never saw Ma6000 but I'm quite familiar with MA6500 and MC252 and plethora of vintage and less vintage Mcintosh products some of which are (less vintage ) somewhat less inspiring. Presence or non presence of hiss or channel bleed might be a proof of technical prowess of manufacturer/designer but there is more to judge the sound of a product I think You'll agree and I agree that sound alone isn't enough to buy a product (not for me at least). I shouldn't have posted that phono stage in MA6500 was nasty , sometimes being a second language speaker kicks in. It was just bland and flat and I found that phono stage in their full function preamp (forgot the designation but it was geared toward HT application also ) was equally flat and boring -quiet as it was.
Ultimately , if having your budget I would stand on the choice to buy MA6600 or not I wouldn't . Not for the sound nor for the look and functions which I frankly don't need. But bashing it because of it and because of blue meters ? No , not me Sire ! :) Enjoy your amp ,and don't feel the urge to defend your choice , they do tend to have long life span and very nice resale value .Rgrds, W

 

RE: Bother?, posted on January 3, 2013 at 13:52:53
E-Stat
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But to argue, as you seem to be, that having tone controls somehow diminishes sound quality even when they're not engaged...

I'll be happy to comment upon anything I've actually said. You must be confusing me with someone else because I HAVEN'T MENTIONED TONE CONTROLS IN THE THE ENTIRE THREAD! Honestly, I don't understand your fixation over them.

I don't have it set up in some isolated listening-room where I'm free to hang all types of bass and sound traps, etc.

I am afforded that luxury in the main system. And, coincidentally have just ordered some RPG diffusors for that room. Arguably, the room is the single most important component. There are ways to provide control that doesn't make a living room look like a control booth.

Since YOU continue to bring up the topic of tone controls, I'll be happy to provide my perspective. While the main system is devoid of them, I have no intention of removing the contour controls on the back of my Sound Lab speakers as others have done. I use the HF control with some frequency. My other four systems, on the other hand, all have them to one degree or another. The Emotiva processor with the HT in the family room even has an eleven band EQ. I just don't find any particular need to ever use them. From time to time, I do vary the sub level in two of those systems.

I'm in this for the music, not for some odd purist crusade.

As am I! Some of us, however, are more passionate about music than others. Listening is a daily affair for me. My neighbor thinks I'm nuts for using Shure SE535 IEMs with my travel system - an iPhone. :)

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 3, 2013 at 14:58:21
DanS


 
I replaced them with a Bogdan silver interconnects. I noticed that the high frequencies were more transparent.
Dan

 

So, posted on January 3, 2013 at 16:38:06
E-Stat
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you modified them to bring the performance level up. Stock motors have around 65 HP.

My bone stock ST1300 achieves what you had to modify with the added benefit of reduced NVH.

I can actually see what's in the mirrors. :)

 

You fail to understand the importance, posted on January 3, 2013 at 16:47:21
E-Stat
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of the allure of the blue meters.

McIntosh considers them one of their "core values". They sell them alone for car stereos. They use them to indicate preamp output (?). They use them to indicate turntable speed. They sell them in a boombox.

They sell them as a clock! :)



 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 3, 2013 at 18:19:04
Sprezza Tura
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Thanks. Interesting. I would never have thought to use interconnects...very clever. I am not surprised that it improved the sound actually.

 

Wow, - that's a really big straw man that you're building there -t., posted on January 4, 2013 at 09:43:31
Sordidman
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That brand has a "house sound" of being syrupy, thick, with a boosted volume in the lower mid range, and recessed highs.

Compare it to "neutral" amps, - it comes out as mud. Mix it up with dark speakers like Vandersteen: you get syrupy mud...


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: Wow, - that's a really big straw man that you're building there -t., posted on January 4, 2013 at 10:08:44
hifi heretic
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Well, the MA6600 measures absolutely flat and, to my ears (which measure well and are quite sensitive to musical nuance) sounds pretty much the same as the Bryston 3Bsst/BP25 combo that preceded it.

I don't know about all this "house sound" stuff. ...Please explain in precise detail how a manufacturer, over decades of producing gear, creates a consistent "house sound" that escapes both measurement AND reliable identification in blinded listening trials?? And please point me to some measurements of the MA6600 that show output being boosted at some requencies and recessed at others. ..In other words, what the heck are you talking about??

Also, how does something sound "syrupy"?

Lastly, ..how am I building a straw man argument?

 

RE: So, posted on January 4, 2013 at 11:54:41
Ozzy
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Posts: 7583
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I can actually see what's in the mirrors. :)

Modern twin cam "B" motors only shake at idle. At speed they are as smooth (or more) than rice bikes.

Oz


Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill

 

RE: So, posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:01:29
E-Stat
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Modern twin cam "B" motors only shake at idle.

Gee, that's not what I've found. 45 degree V-twins are inherently imbalanced. Counter balancers help. Big frame bushings help.

At speed they are as smooth (or more) than rice bikes.

Perhaps that of a small displacement inline four. But not opposed sixes or 90 degree V-4s. Physics works.

 

no definition for "flat" or "neutral", posted on January 4, 2013 at 12:22:51
Sordidman
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no measurement for "flat" and blind tests can be, and are, not good indicators...

There is no scientific measurement, analysis, or claim, involved in the subjective experience, and variations of what people hear.

You're creating a staw man by trying to place your subjective viewpoint as scientific fact.

IMO, and others who may agree, but compared to other amplifiers that are regarded as neutral, the MAC always comes up on the warm side of neutral when put up against higher end gear and it's competitors. Bryston, isn't the best example as their power amps have varied in tonal character. But if you compare to someone like Arcam, NuForce, Acoustic Research, MF, Parasound, etc, all are much more balanced across the sonic spectrum. Some of those mentioned are even on the "cool" side & slightly "light" in the bass, - but overall more balanced.....

Nothing is wrong with preferring a warmer (MAC like) amp, in context, - it can be a great choice. But my contention is very few people with a lot of listening experience with many different amps would find ANY Mac product neutral or flat...


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

nonsense.., posted on January 4, 2013 at 14:23:20
hifi heretic
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Again, what accounts for McIntosh's or any other brands "house sound" ? ..Some Mac amps have auto-formers, some don't, some are SS, some are tube, some are 40 years old, some brand new. How would this house sound be maintained over the years if no one knows what accounts for it?? Particularly if the boost in some frequencies and drop in others doesn't even show up in measurements (sorry, but that is a ridiculous assertion, in my view).

You said my amp sounds "syrupy, thick" "..like mud". ..How is it possible that I've had so many people, many of whom are just as devoted to enjoying music as you, over to listen to it and NONE have noticed is sounding like mud?

And I think you're more guilty of creating straw man arguements than I. ..You're basically saying that if you're an experienced listener, you will find mac gear to sound warm, which is at least a softening of your initial description of "syruppy, thick, and mud-like".


..nonsense.

 

RE: nonsense.., posted on January 4, 2013 at 19:58:54
henrybasstardo
Audiophile

Posts: 1690
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I agree with you and I never heard the amp

What you feed it and what it feeds is everything

Mud and syrup comments sound so shock and awe and probably are intended to be
For what? If you have to ask...
What have they hooked it up to?

Ignore them. If you like it that is all that matters

 

RE: Back in the day it was, posted on January 5, 2013 at 05:02:40
sudz1234@yahoo.com
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Back in the day the only people that bought Mc Intosh were doctors and lawyers. It seems they have expanded their market in the 21 century.

 

RE: The blue meters, posted on January 5, 2013 at 05:14:40
sudz1234@yahoo.com
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I wonder how much business they would lose if they got rid of the blue meters. I have a friend that owns all Mac gear. He says he bought Mc gear because of the blue meters. I have a feeling he is not alone.

 

RE: The blue meters, posted on January 5, 2013 at 06:22:02
hifi heretic
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For me, the McIntosh appeal has less to do with the meters and more about the fact that they included a balance control, bass/treble, and a mono switch on nearly all of their integrateds/pre-amps and, in the case of my MA6600, some other very very useful features. Basically, embracing a sensible approach to feature sets rather than a purist minimalist one. That said, the meters are cool looking - plain and simple. And I do like knowing how much wattage the amp is putting out as it helps me to avoid over-driving my speakers.

You, and others, can hate on McIntosh all you want but they've built a successful brand. I'm guessing (based on other of your posts) that you see McIntosh as offering little beyond the meters, but I would disagree. ..Their stuff measures exceptionally well, sounds fabulous, and is beautifully built (again, how many amps can you turn all the way up and hear ZERO noise/hum? ...I've never owned one!). Plus, it holds its value very very well b/c they've kept a 50yr old aesthetic that makes their gear immediately recognizable regardless of when it was built.

All that aside, I would agree that with a few of their offerings they seems to have "jumped the shark" a bit, like the McAire and that dreadful looking turntable - yuck. ..But hey, every brand has made mistakes.

 

"Basically, embracing a sensible approach to feature sets rather than a purist minimalist one.", posted on January 5, 2013 at 06:56:10
E-Stat
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Except of course for the $12,500 C500 and the $18,000 C1000 preamps.

 

RE: "Basically, embracing a sensible approach to feature sets rather than a purist minimalist one.", posted on January 5, 2013 at 07:01:10
hifi heretic
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which were intended to be used w/ soon to follow room correction system, which is like tone/treble controls w/ infinite gradations.

 

How then are Mac's TOTL preamps, posted on January 5, 2013 at 09:04:32
E-Stat
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different from any other "minimalist" design?

which is like tone/treble controls w/ infinite gradations.

That is certainly not the case. Bass and treble controls are simple shelving filters whose effect spans multiple octaves. Room correction systems, on the other hand, use very narrow banded (fractional octave) equalization for specific *surgical" corrections. You don't fix room modes with bass and treble controls for obvious reasons. Conversely, room correction systems don't have bass and treble controls. The most important distinction is that once a room correction system has been calibrated and set, you leave it alone just like any other room treatments.





Apparently, you haven't read the feature set for the MEN220. While it offers six preset EQ curves in addition to room correction, bass and treble functionality is absent. It certainly is incapable of just attenuating either end. By all means, don't aspire to own Mac's best gear as it appears you would be disappointed.


 

RE: How then are Mac's TOTL preamps, posted on January 5, 2013 at 09:54:35
hifi heretic
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e-stat, you seem curiously intent on antagonizing me. ..Not sure why. but at least you dropped off the " :) ".

What can I tell you? ..I've been told by a dealer that these pre-amps lack the simpler bass/treble controls found on their other preamps b/c McIntosh encourages owners to use them w/ the MEN200. ..Simple as that.

Yes, room correction accomplishes a great deal more than bass/treble controls, but MEN200 EQ features are there to be used, just as bass/treble controls would be, to improve specific recordings when desired. ..Which is precisely what I use Bass/ Treble controls for!! If you don't believe me, take a look at the brochure.

From the MEN200 brochure:

EQ can be used for "....refreshing inferior but still-cherished source material, or compensating for inferior formats."

So leaving bass/treble off of their priciest models should not be taken as evidence that McIntosh believes that uch devices can only do harm.

 

RE: How then are Mac's TOTL preamps, posted on January 5, 2013 at 10:06:06
E-Stat
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I've been told by a dealer that these pre-amps lack the simpler bass/treble controls found on their other preamps b/c McIntosh encourages owners to use them w/ the MEN200. but MEN200 EQ features are there to be used, just as bass/treble controls would be...

EQ can be used for "....refreshing inferior but still-cherished source material, or compensating for inferior formats."


Get past the marketing BS and download the document in my previous link called "MEN220 Room Correction System Graphs and Set Up Menus " - if you're willing to learn something. There you'll find the six fixed profiles called Music 1, Music 2, Mellow, Soft, Party and Loudness. None of which act like independent bass and treble controls. Are you capable of independent thought and analysis of facts? Perhaps not. :)

So leaving bass/treble off of their priciest models should not be taken as evidence that McIntosh believes that uch devices can only do harm.

Only that they are obviously not useful enough for inclusion with the best McIntosh gear. You simply cannot get them. They aren't found on the preamps and they aren't included with the room correction system.

 

RE: How then are Mac's TOTL preamps, posted on January 5, 2013 at 10:13:30
hifi heretic
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you're too funny...

Look, the dealer tells me the MEN200, in addition to room correction, includes a 6-band equalizer which takes the place of tone controls, and the brochure states this as well. Enough already...

The MA6900 and the MA7000 integrated have a 6-band equalizer too. ..should they also have bass/treble controls? ..of course not.

You seem to believe that having tone controls on a pre-amp or integrated amp somehow diminishes it or disqualifies from being considered state-of-the art. ..This is silly, imho. If you chose to buy gear w/out tone controls, that is quite fine.

 

You must have zero interest in the truth, posted on January 5, 2013 at 10:34:14
E-Stat
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Obviously, you never read the manual where it clearly states:

• Listening Equalization Curves
The MEN220 has six preset Equalization Curves to choose from when listening to various type of music


Is the meaning of the word "preset" foreign to you? Must be. Nor did you bother to view the six preset curves. So much for independent thought. :)



The MA6900 and the MA7000 integrated have a 6-band equalizer too. ..should they also have bass/treble controls?

Unlike the MEN220, however, the settings are not fixed. But then you'd understand the difference if you had actually read the manuals for each. :)




 

As you can see, posted on January 5, 2013 at 12:14:19
E-Stat
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guys like this cannot even be honest with themselves over the control the meters have over them. Note his response:

And I do like knowing how much wattage the amp is putting out as it helps me to avoid over-driving my speakers.

His memory is either exceptionally poor or he just cannot bring himself to accept reality. I've already pointed out to him that the nanny circuit, aka Power Guard will actively prevent him from clipping the amp - no matter how inept he may be.



 

Power Guard ? ..What if I switch to smaller speakers, posted on January 5, 2013 at 19:58:47
hifi heretic
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Posts: 898
Location: Suburban Philadelphia
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e-stat.. Please answer this question: ..Why are you so damn antagonistic? ..geezus.

You keep pointing out that the meters are pointless because power guard will keep me from destroying my speakers. Is this true no matter what speakers I may be using? ..Though my current speakers are rated for something like 200 w/ channel of continuous input, I may someday scale down, or move this amp to room where I have stand mounted bookshelf speakers with far lesser power handling. ..Take for example a speaker with a rating of 100w continuous input. How will power guard prevent me from blowing them to bits??

And how about trying to be civil in your reply. ..Were you bullied as a child or something? ..Well chill out dude. ..It wasn't me.

 

RE: Power Guard ? ..What if I switch to smaller speakers, posted on January 6, 2013 at 06:49:36
E-Stat
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... or move this amp to room where I have stand mounted bookshelf speakers...How will power guard prevent me from blowing them to bits??

Blowing them to bits? You mean like this?




Funny, if not unreal scene. You will still not damage them with clean power. If you were to overdrive tiny speakers, you would clearly hear it before you burned out a voice coil. Virtually all modern speakers can handle 200 closely monitored watts with no trouble. The ferrofluid cooling of the drivers in your speakers was available thirty years ago. I have no worry whatsoever of damaging the smallish stand mount Polk speakers in my HT with the 300 watt per channel amp. Last night, the wife and I watched Red Tails at pretty loud levels. My ears drive the volume control, not a bouncing needle that really can't respond to peaks quickly enough anyway.

For the past three years, I've used my vintage system with a 200 watt per channel Threshold amp driving a double pair of late 70s Advents for the neighbor's Halloween party for their teenaged daughter. It was driven WIDE OPEN for three hours using her compressed MP3 content. Gain control at full clockwise position and LED ladders near or hitting 0 db. They do fine. One year, however, the old woofer surrounds on one pair were shredded to pieces. A $20 re-foaming kit was overdue for them anyway. :)

Have you ever damaged a speaker before? In over forty years, I sure haven't. When I was a teenager, I tried once but failed. I hooked up a small, cheap five inch cone to the Audire power amp I had at the time and ran it wide open. The amp put out a dynamic 100 watts and the speaker was rated for about three. I thought I might get something resembling the Back to the Future scene. Didn't happen.

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 6, 2013 at 07:04:44
jsm71
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Posts: 1123
Location: Cincinnati OH
Joined: June 16, 2011
Nice review, and I like how you positioned your priorities and what you like about the Mac. Please enjoy every day with this piece because it will last. As long as it presents no issue for you, you are set.

Back in the late 80's I owned Mac separates and bought for many of the same reasons you did. I will fully admit that I was attracted by the meters and the heft of the amp. I got a chuckle every time I suggested to one of my friends to lift the 100 lb amp. The looks on their face was priceless. That heft became less endearing as I had to move it. What sold me on the equipment however was the measurements and features. The preamp was my first good phono front end and I didn't have any issue with it because it was such an improvement over the Akai receiver that was replaced.

Moving the clock forward over 20 years of solid use, I stepped up to Maggie 1.7s. Once I got past the initial thrill I couldn't understand some upper frequency harshness at higher volumes. Maggies will suck every ounce of power you have and I was getting audible artifacts from the power guard. The Mac WAS clipping even with 270 watts/ch and I could hear it. I bought a plain looking and featureless Sanders Magtech and quickly discovered that there are better amps out there. The Magtech has about three times the power at 4 ohms and sounded cleaner. I also went with a tube preamp so the Mac gear was regretably sold. Ironically I am now selling the Maggies but luckily my current separates work beautifully with my new speakers.

If I didn't have such demanding and revealing speakers I suspect I would still have the Mac gear today. Even after 20 plus years I still got about 50% of my original purchase price. I more than got my monies worth from that purchase and the styling was timeless. Again, if you are not hearing anything that doesn't sound wrong to you, long live the Mac.

 

meter accuracy, posted on January 6, 2013 at 07:45:45
hifi heretic
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Regarding wattage meter accuracy, McIntosh claims their meters are "true peak reading watt meters." that measure both current and voltage output, and display the amplifiers actual peak output as measured in watts. For years, they've incorporated a special acceleration circuit that overcomes the mass of the meter's needle. As a result, they are > 95% accurate. ..Not perfect, but still good enough to be quite functional. So I call BS on your claim that they aren't accurate. ..Saying you don't need them is one thing, but I don't think it's fair to say they aren't accurate

As for you contention that speakers nowadays are rarely damaged by over-driving. Again, I disagree. I've damaged my Spica TC-50's by over driving them (B&K 200w/channel amp) and a pair of Polk Audio 5Jr+ by over-driving them w/ an NAD 7250pe receiver. ..Plus, I've read countless accounts on various forums of people over-driving their speakers and needing to replace drivers or cross-over components. This is particularly true of 1st order cross-over designs like Vandersteen. ..I've also read detailed refutations from electrical engineers about the myth of "too little power is more dangerous to speaker than too much". ..You can google it if interested.

 

RE: meter accuracy, posted on January 6, 2013 at 08:01:22
E-Stat
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McIntosh claims their meters are "true peak reading watt meters.

As does everybody else. Threshold made the same claim for its inherently faster LEDs that don't require any *compensation*. Theory and practice don't always meet.

I've damaged my Spica TC-50's by over driving them (B&K 200w/channel amp)

Curious. Damaged exactly how? You were just listening along and suddenly...



 

RE: meter accuracy, posted on January 6, 2013 at 10:30:02
hifi heretic
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"Theory and Practice don't always meet" ..What do you mean by this? Are you saying that McIntosh's claims about their meters are untrue? ..If so, why and what evidence do you have.

As for my Spica's, it was years ago so I don't recall much about it other than I recall one speaker sounding quite bad. ..My dealer ordered in a new tweeter and that took care of it. ..Go to the speaker forum on AVS.com. There are countless accounts of people over-driving their speakers and damaging them.

 

Thanks for the reply -nt, posted on January 6, 2013 at 10:39:50
E-Stat
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.

 

REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 6, 2013 at 13:22:10
Alex F.
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On the contrary, the phono section in my MA6500 is excellent: smooth, clean, excellent resolution and extension top to bottom, with rich harmonics. I have had many high-end phono preamps over the years, both tube and solid-state, and the MA6500's phono stage makes wonderful music with the best moving-magnet cartridges available, both vintage and current.

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 6, 2013 at 17:49:56
Wojciech
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Posts: 4115
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Oh dear ,
I suspected that I'm a deaf moron , I just didn't know the scale of it... :0) , Happy New Year!

 

manufacturers get the sound that they want, posted on January 9, 2013 at 11:11:59
Sordidman
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No one topology yields a certain defined sound: manufacturers are talented at using multiple different configures to achieve the sound THAT THEY WANT.

There is nothing wrong with MAC's take on the sound, it sounds like a MAC.
Hooray!! There are so many people, and so many systems, in so many rooms, that achieve GREAT SOUND for their owners. Their owners also love those big blue meters, and the history, & the vibe. Bully for them. It is similar to Plinius, Pass Labs, Classe, etc. It is not neutral, it is warm. And that's really great. Classical music people, who listen to acoustic instruments that are light in the bass, and don't have the sibilance of a modern drum kit, use these amps to great effect to warm up violins, and take away the upper glare of of sibilant instruments. They also match up nicely with speakers like B&W who are not bloomy through the mid-range, and require a lot of current to drive the drivers.

What other amps did you plug into that same system? Pass? Classe? NAD? Krell? Did you try Mark Levinson?, or NuForce? or BAT? Did you try Bel Canto, Sim Audio, or Musical Fidelity?


"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"

 

RE: meter accuracy, posted on January 9, 2013 at 11:33:06
It's been my experience that McIntosh power meters are accurate when reading peaks, but just not fast enough to reflect exactly what's going on the very instant the peak is reached. I asked a McIntosh factory rep (in Binghampton) about this years ago when I owned a 2105/C28 combo. IIRC he replied that it was impossible for them to make a meter that would respond so quickly because the meter had to be damped otherwise it would be bouncing all over the scale therefore near impossible to read.

 

RE: Actually, I have, posted on January 10, 2013 at 11:55:50
shodulik
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"In over forty years, I've never damaged any speakers nor owned any amplifier that has shut down."

Wow you must have had a really sheltered childhood/young adulthood. What kid hasn't fried an amp or blown a woofer or two? Never thrown a party and got a little to aggressive with the volume? Never experimented with a bass tape or two?

 

RE: Actually, I have, posted on January 10, 2013 at 12:17:42
E-Stat
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What kid hasn't fried an amp or blown a woofer or two?

I tried my best with a Crown D-150 driving double Advents!

What I did accomplish was during the setup of the system at school for the 1974 Miss RHS Pageant. I ended up welding a screwdriver to the Crown's output posts. Lighting was pretty bad under the little table. :)

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 18, 2013 at 19:56:53
Jimmy2615
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Posts: 54
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Exactly. This company that's been around for quite a while producing good stuff, still draws the ire. So, if blue meters and power guard are silly, McIntosh could sell something like the MA6600 in a black box with mostly the same electronics inside for...$1,500 less? So what? Who cares. Why not criticize Soulution, Leben, Pass, BALabo, etc., etc just to name a few who have ads in the latest magazines. Personally I think McIntosh is good sounding gear that is reliable, looks good, and also overpriced. But it's also made in America. For 25-50% more I can buy Audio Research, also made in America. (Those American workers are expensive!). I guess it's just too tempting to try to prove how experienced, smart, and knowledgeable you are on a forum where no one really knows who you are.

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 19, 2013 at 06:51:59
Sprezza Tura
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Agree totally. There are much bigger targets out there, including those you named and many more that charge as much as a sports car for a amplifier.

How McIntosh is an offensive in any way is beyond me. Half the product line is affordable by audiophile standards, that is beyond debate.

And they sound damn good.

I went over to my friends house who owns the MA6600 after this thread got started and had several, long enjoyable listening sessions. I heard nothing to nitpick about, and the sound was absolutely high fidelity. And I actually prefer tubes.

Blue meters, green meters...what ever, they just need something to vent about.

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 19, 2013 at 12:06:34
hifi heretic
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thanks:)

What I find interesting is that many of those who criticize the brand for being expensive have gear that is nearly as expensive, or more, and often are minimalist designs that lack tone controls, mono switch, and often even a balance control. Is McIntosh overpriced? ..To the legions of music lovers who are very content w/ their Pioneer, Onkyo or HK Receivers, of course it is. ..But to these sensible people, Audio Research, Krell, Bryston, etc. are also very overpriced.

I could understand if there were indications that McIntosh's quality was only illusory; if in contrast to the beautiful glass faceplate, blue meters and pretty knobs their gear measured poorly (or not as well as claimed in their specifications), had noisy controls, poor reliability, etc.. ..But this is NOT the case.

As I said of my MA6600, it is the only piece of gear I have owned that produces nary a whisp of electric noise/hum at FULL gain. And absolutely NO audible signal creep from other inputs. For this to be the case, there has to be some very competent engineering and manufacturing going on.

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 19, 2013 at 16:37:39
Sprezza Tura
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"What I find interesting is that many of those who criticize the brand for being expensive have gear that is nearly as expensive, or more, and often are minimalist designs that lack tone controls, mono switch, and often even a balance control..."

Bingo!

There is noting illusory about the Quality of McIntosh.

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 30, 2013 at 19:41:48
Orwell


 
Hey there, just bought a new MA6600 less than two weeks ago, also a pair of used Thiel CS3.6's with hardly even a scratch on them. Hooked the Thiels up to the 4 ohm outputs and I am somewhat surprised as when I turn the amp up to say the 65% to 80% range, it's barely on the upper edge of my loudest listening range, which is not really all that loud. And the amp is borderline clipping here and there occasionally in this range. The needles are slapping all the way over to the right...not pinned, but in the 1:00 to 2:00PM position.

I just don't understand? The output of the amp is a minimum 200W and the range of the speakers are 100W to 500W.

One of my friends has this amp with, i don't know off hand what speakers, and my friend is insane, and plays this combo deafening loud, and the amp/speakers handle that volume just fine? This is way, way louder than iI would ever play it? Another of my friends has exactly the same combination as I do: MA6600 and Thiel 3.6's and he is encountering the same thing, except he does not really listen to music very load, so he's basically happy and the system sounds just great.

Can Thiel CS3.6's really need a more powerful amp than a MA6600? I'm kind of perplexed here? The speakers are just beautiful and so is the amp, but I would expect to be reaching the uppermost edge of my listening range with the amp barely at 20%, not 75% and my trying to be careful to play it just below clipping........what the hell is going on here? This can't possibly be correct???

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 30, 2013 at 20:23:02
Sprezza Tura
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Hi There:

Interesting situation here. Something is CLEARLY amiss.

My friend who owns the MA6600 drives Harbeths to his hearts delight..I don't think I have seen him go over 46% on the volume...ever.

The Harbeths are 6 Ohms and medium sensitivity.

Now, I own Thiel CS3.7. The 3.6 is quite a different speaker from what I looked up. Low sensitivity at around 86 db, and 4 ohms but it goes all the way down to 2.5.

Here is what I am thinking. Try the 2 ohm tap. That may be the ticket.

Secondly...your source..what is the output voltage? Is is below the standard 2V?

Ultimately, I think the 3.6 is the issue. The 3.7 is way more sensitive.

See this Stereophile review..with a link to the 3.6 review as well.

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on January 31, 2013 at 02:59:34
hifi heretic
Audiophile

Posts: 898
Location: Suburban Philadelphia
Joined: February 22, 2003
Something's wrong here. ..Do a google search and you'll find there are plenty people using 75w tube amps with their 3.6's. ..Or 50w SS amps. ..While they may not be the best match, due to the 3.6's low impedence, the fact that that they're having success with their lower output amps tells me there is something broken in your setup.

If memory serves (I actually considered buying 3.6's way back when...) Stereophile wrecked the mid-range drivers on their sample 3.6's when testing them. Because they're a first-order design (which I believe means any given frequency is played through just one driver) they're kinda susceptible to damage when over driven. ..I'm going out on a limb here, but my hunch is your speakers have been damaged by the previous owner. ..I drove my Vandersteen 3A Sigs, also a first-order and even lower efficiency speaker, to absurdly loud levels with my NAD 7250PE 50w. receiver. ..It's unimaginable to me that the beast of an amp MA6600 would falter at all driving your Theils unless something is wrong. Either ask your dealer to lend you another 200w amp (different brand) OR bring your speakers to your dealer and have them tested.

Edit: (added comment):

I just googled mag reviews of the 3.6. In 1992 HiFi News and Record Review said this of the 3.6:

"At 86dB/1W sensitivity and a hardly frightening 4ohm impedance (not dropping below 3ohm), the Thiel could be driven with a small Adcom or Acurus amplifier to obscene levels"

So, again, if your MA6600 is struggling, something is not working properly and it's probably the speakers.

good luck!

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on February 2, 2013 at 09:25:24
orwell


 
Thank you Heretic and Sperzza for responding.

I was listening to my system this morning. You have to understand, it's realatively new and I'm justing trying to digest everything. I was listening fairly loud this morning, certainly not crazy loud..... ......the amp was between 58% and 62%.........the meteres were dancing between 1:00 and 2:00PM, with lets say 2:30 being all the way pinned. They never seemed to go beyond 2:00......or clip.......but I suppose if I pushed it above 70% I would be watching it nerviously.

All that being said, the system sounded wonderful, just wonderful............no complaints at all...

.........it's just I would be expecting the meters to say ,oh I don't know.......45% and have a very hard time breaking high noon?

I am visting my crazy buddy toninght who blasts his MA6600. I will report back what speakers he is using. We will crank his system tonight.

I will in the very near future visit my other buddy with the same amp and speakers to crank his system and see how the meters respond, if it is truely the same as what I am seeing. If his gear responds exactly the same way, then it ain't the speakers then.

Stay tuned and thanks again for your feedback. I really appreciate it. Fortunately I have these two guys with MA6600's (one with Thiel 3.6's) to compare systems with.

Just as an aside, I don't think I mentioned this before, not that it matters really.....I replaced my Thiel CS 3.0's and Bryston 4B and 1B amp and pre-amp that I purchased mid-eighties. Several years ago I blew a tweeter, then another tweeter last year and now again a third tweeter .....so I said screw it, it's time to upgrade stuff, hence my recent purchases. So two of my buddies had this mac amp and I wanted one too.......

The audio dealer in my town (very well known, respected and established for decades) said "the meters are basically there to entertain you, and the percentage meter is just there so you can return to the exact same volume later". Of course I never really listen to these guys.......I've always noticed something about high end audio dealers, if they sell it it's great, and if they don't sell it it's crap.......

 

RE: REVIEW: McIntosh MA6600 Integrated Amplifier (SS), posted on February 3, 2013 at 08:00:45
Sprezza Tura
Audiophile

Posts: 4585
Location: New York City
Joined: August 24, 2012
Agree with you about dealer comment! If they don't sell it is designated as crap.

Thanks for the follow up...but one thing you did not seem to address...is it possible the speaker is damaged?

Also how far is your listening position from the speakers...?

 

don't forget about source output voltage and input trims on MA6600, posted on February 3, 2013 at 10:25:04
hifi heretic
Audiophile

Posts: 898
Location: Suburban Philadelphia
Joined: February 22, 2003
"I will in the very near future visit my other buddy with the same amp and speakers to crank his system and see how the meters respond, if it is truely the same as what I am seeing. If his gear responds exactly the same way, then it ain't the speakers then."

For this to be true Orwell his and your source components need to be outputting the exact same voltage to the MA6600. ..And it's quite possible, maybe even LIKELY, that they are not; indeed, there is great variability among CD players, music servers, DVD players, etc.. with respect to output voltage. This is precisely why the MA6600 allows the user to increase/decrease input trims - so that you can avoid huge volume swings when changing sources and leaving the volume control at the same position. Until I adjusted mine, for any given volume setting my Cable box was way louder than my music server. ..Have you checked these settings? ..It may be that you have the settings adjusted all the way down for your source. ..The effect would be precisely what you're describing - you'd have to the volume control to higher than expected setting to get a given level of output.

Also.. don't discount the importance of room acoustics. ..If your friends room is smaller and/or more lively, his MA6600/3.6 setup will sound much louder at a given setting.

And your dealer is wrong about the meters. ..While certainly not a necessity, they are indeed accurate and, for those whose speakers maximum input wattage are at or near the upper limits of the amp, they can be quite helpful in avoiding over-driving the speakers.

 

RE: don't forget about source output voltage and input trims on MA6600, posted on February 3, 2013 at 18:27:22
orwell


 
He guys,

The 3.6's replaced my 3.0's as I said before.....and I have them in a not very large room, which is one reason I say, I don't play them crazy loud like my friend. I have referenced two friends: One with the same amp, an MA6600 and Thiel 3.6's and my other friend whom I visited last night. He has, and I did not realize this, a McIntosh MA6500 not a MA6600. It's basically the same amp but it has a physical bass, treble and balance knobs and buttons at the bottom edge for all he sources . The 6600 has a virtual window for all these selections.

He has four Canton Karet 300's running off of it. When he turns the amp very loud, the amp is really working hard with the needles slapping all the way over in the 1:30PM to 2:15PM range. His peak light came on once or twice.

My other friend with exactly the same gear insists his gear responds the same exact way, but he tends not to play as loud as I do.

I really do not believe there are any issues with these speakers, I just think they require a lot of juice.

 

RE: don't forget about source output voltage and input trims on MA6600, posted on February 4, 2013 at 04:50:55
hifi heretic
Audiophile

Posts: 898
Location: Suburban Philadelphia
Joined: February 22, 2003
Orwell, the MA6600 and 6500 are NOT basically the same amp. The MA6500 puts out 120w/ch @ 8ohms vs. the 200w/ch of the MA6600. The MA6600 also has autoformers which helps it to better manage low impedance speakers. Also, and most importantly, the 6500 does NOT have the input trims which, as I suggested in my last reply, may be dialed way down on your MA6600 and thus lead to the need for more pre-amp gain to reach an identical output level.

 

RE: don't forget about source output voltage and input trims on MA6600, posted on February 4, 2013 at 11:19:24
orwell


 
I need to review very carefully all you guys comments and suggestions later when I get time. Thank yuo again. More to follow

 

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