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Milkman Dan has my interest whetted on tube rolling

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so, Les sent me some tubes and I tried 'em, but maybe it's my setup or maybe it's my tin ear but I didn't notice startling changes. Of course, I am still recovering from the startling change of using Laurels in the first place, so maybe I need to adjust for a while.
My question is, how in the Sam Hill do you know what tubes to substitute? They often don't have the same part numbers, and it's all so confusing for my little pea brain.
Is there a source of information for the fundamentally stupid on how to roll tubes?

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Laurel and Moondog tube rolling: 6SN7 Improvements mobile homeless 07:15:21 01/02/01 (2)
Randy wonders : So, Les sent me some tubes and I tried 'em, but maybe it's my setup or maybe it's my tin ear but I didn't notice startling changes. Of course, I am still recovering from the startling change of using Laurels in the first place, so maybe I need to adjust for a while.

Well Randy, I do feel your pain here (although not THAT much pain - At least you have some speakers - we should TRADE!) . I can imagine the 300B tube from what I remember as being so nice in the midrange that it might not be as see-through a quality as a 2A3. Still, even so, you should be hearing very discernable differences here, depending on the type of tube used.

With the 6SN7s and 5692s, I heard very clear differences via the Moondog; indeed, as I said, I was able to improve upon the "stock" Philips 6SN7s by mixing and matching the inputs. Great results were obtained using a 6SN7, such as the Sylvania 6SN7WGT (yellow lettering) feeding into a CBS or Sylvania 5692 into the RCA(Black Plate) 2A3 or Sovtek 2A3. I will report all my results in an upcoming post.

One thing I found, SET amps, especially the 2A3 variety, are even MORE sensitive to preamp selection . I have a Creek Passive you see at right that, while transparent, does not seem to offer as much drive and midrange warmth via the Moondog. A passive would probably work much better via the Laurels, however. especially into your horns. They are very inexpensive and might allow you to hear your tube rolling results. Regardless, I think your NAD preamp is a definite weak link in your system. I dont think this unit has the resolution of the rest of your system and is probably providing a big bottleneck.

I still prefer the RCA 2A3 Black Plates to the Sovtek 2A3, as they provide a more palpable, organic, and refined quality. That being said, the Sovtek 2A3s are helped with the addition of the 5692 as a driver (paired with a 6SN7). One interesting note, after attempting quite a few 6SN7 alternatives, I reinstalled my original JAN Philips 6SN7WGTA and was shocked to hear the difference! In my system, there was simply no contest as the Philips sounded far less refined! Once again, others may obtain different results here, but in my application with the equipment you see at right, I was shocked to hear just how much of an improvement was obtained by the switch. Indeed, I don't think I can go back to the Philips tubes (NOTE: As noted elsewhere in the Asylum, mixing the 6SN7s seems to offer a better result than two of the same type).

I'll keep you posted...Getting ready to attempt a coupling cap change as well.
- Kelly
- Re: Laurel and Moondog tube rolling: 6SN7 Improvements Randy Bey 13:31:05 01/02/01 (1)
  hmmm
  Now I have to wonder about preamp choices.
  1) Creek OBH-12
  2) Welborne Labs Reveile passive
  3) Transcedent Grounded Grid
  4) Two soup cans and a piece of string
  Right now my budget is leaning towards #4.
  - Re: Preamp choice mobile homeless 21:07:14 01/02/01 (0)
    Bey Writes: Now I have to wonder about preamp choices.
    1) Creek OBH-12
    2) Welborne Labs Reveile passive
    3) Transcedent Grounded Grid
    4) Two soup cans and a piece of string
    Right now my budget is leaning towards #4.
    Lord, Randy. You're getting funnier than Milkman Dan! The Creek is a neat little piece that is pretty damn transparent; it does not quite do as well in the warmth and drive department for the 2A3 amp, although the transparency is nice (what is even nicer, perhaps, is the remote volume which comes in handy when bursts of clipping volume pour forth). As I said, it might do nicely in the Laurel. I picked mine up used for $200 on Ebay.
    In the last week, I have switched back to my Cary Audio SLP-70 which has been highly modified. It uses 6SL7 and 6SN7 (2 each) with 12AX7 in the phono. It is a very musical preamp that is also extremely quiet. This unit provides GREAT drive and body but is just a hair less open than the Passive. Still, it is a tradeoff as are most things. Lately, I have preferred the midrange warmth and life it brings over the Creek. Last week, the Creek was in service.
    I heard a Cary Audio SLP-50 and that unit had great dynamics and was extremely transparent as well. I heard some good things about the little unit by Decware as well.
    I have not had a chance to hear the Reveille, either passive or active, but have not heard anything negative. Regardless, the preamp is one of THE most important pieces in your system.
    Stop messin' around, Randy!
    kh
Re: Milkman Dan has my interest whetted on tube rolling Les Lammers 15:01:35 01/01/01 (0)
Randy,
I have a book called 'The Tube Substitution Handbook' very original title huh? It lists say, 5AR4 and equivalents etc. very handy.
With the Laurel's the Mullard 5AR4's are 'the best' so have at some
6SL7's and see what you think.
'Mom, I don't wanna come out of the basement, I'm rolling a tube.'

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