- Posted by dave c (A) on June 20, 2009 at 07:16:35
BBC reports explosions in Tehran as security forces gather.
|
Home
/ FAQ
/ News Classifieds / Events |
Audio Asylum Thread Printer |
Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
122.111.18.111
BBC reports explosions in Tehran as security forces gather.
why not?
"You don't have to be faster than the lion....
just the guy running next to you.." -anonymous
You know it's funny, if one had some familiarity with the history and norms in that part of the world, one couldn't possibly conclude being involved in that part of the world militarily made any sense at all.
Its not about logic or common sense, it is a political / money based decision.
After all, with no large enemies left, no world wars, we need to fulminate a high level of turmoil in order to "justify" Obama's further increases over Bushes war time military spending and waste.
It's sad too, Obama campaigned giving people the impression he wanted peace, to bring the troops home and reduce our military involvement around the world.
Ah well, especially now a days, campaign promises have the durability of Kleenex in a rainstorm.
well to compare bush cheney , to Obama,we will compare in four yrs,then we will see, but lets give Obama a chance,you just gotta love fox ,hannity,i mean really where do they find these people.He will do what he can to get us out o the shithole bush put us in,people act like Obama should have the USA problems fixed in 100 days the way he's nitpicked on by the right.at least we know what he's up to compare that to cheney running bushs shenanigans from his little closed off bunker world.And now that he doesnt know when to shutup justifies how lost this guy really is.Pretty sad in a good way.
Obama has increased our deficit and will continue to do so. He is and will continue to outspend every President in history.
Back to what I said is "funny". It's funny to hear Obama and his administration always blame failure on the previous one. He never accepts responsibility. He asked for the job, but always seems to manage to point out that he didn't create the problems we're dealing with.
He wasn't hired to finger point. He was hired to solve. After four months on the job, it's high time the new employee stopped making excuses and started living up to his resume.
~!
"The Sound of One Hand Clapping is Crashing by Design" HKM
And bush cheney were supposed to lead the country ,how did that work out for you,good i suppose.
Yeah, i wonder how different things would have been W/O 911.
We enjoyed a great economy for 7 out of 8 years. 9/11 wasn't Bush or Cheney's fault, and in retrospect they handled it pretty well. You probably think invading Iraq was a bad idea, and I wouldn't disagree with you, but I'm not sure I agree with you either. If they establish a real Democracy there and the people can enjoy a better system of government than what's going on in Iran right now, then you would have to call it a good idea. Interest rates dropped enough to help stimulate a responsible economy, and instead of Democratic Senators and Congressmen and Women heeding the advice about reform of Fannie and Freddie from Republicans, they said those two institutions were just fine.
I see Obama fooled you too.
Nice how you want to have the invasion of Iraq both ways...
The concerted attacks from the usual suspects is a chorus of empty vessels I am afraid.
some refuse to simply steer their thinking to catch the wind................some still believe they can sail directly into the wind without tack................{read effort to learn for tack}
"The Sound of One Hand Clapping is Crashing by Design" HKM
Oh, I know.... ANYTHING a Democrat president did.
Of course, it's so obvious when you see it, the logic precise, the insight devastating.
In this leaked photo, we see J-PM fine tuning his system using that brilliance:
Now there is a blast from the past, i can still hear "Oh Magoo...you've done it again ark ark "
Jim Backus was priceless in "its a mad mad mad world" also if you know that movie and a convincing Ahoy polloi in Gilligan's Island. A Funny man.
If he does nothing else, at least Americans don't need to cringe with embarrassment any time he opens his mouth to speak. That's a vast improvement over the previous occupant. Time will tell if he can have any accomplishments of significance. If he does, he'll win again. If he doesn't, he won't. I can live with that.
-Wendell
He is an excellent speaker to be sure but remember "the eloquence in presentation has no bearing at all on the validity of what is said"
In fact at least historically, the best scoundrels the world has seen were persuasive speakers.
In the case of Obama, i am concerned that after posturing as a peace oriented candidate, the inverse of Bush, that now he has expanded military spending, has adopted Bushes Time table and then added to it and appears to be expanding our involvement in other places.
Distressing to is now his supporters who would be incandescent with rage if Bush did the same things, now "see" reasons for it all, pretty funny.
Shame you couldn't get him into power.
The Americans that cringed when George Bush spoke were the same Americans that said he stole the first election, that he lied to the country, who was responsible for levees breaking in New Orleans and doesn't care about black people, who greedily digest Michael Moore propaganda films, who despise Southern accents and ethnic accents, who first bought into Global Cooling and then Global Warming and who now call it Climate Change.....
You know....Liberals.
I'd suggest that the those labels - Lib & Conservative - are pretty much null and void. Gone with the wind like much of the straight party ticket voters.
The times are too Interesting, complex, and challenging. Too many people listening to talk radio to make their opinions for them.
I doubt there's even a certified decription anymore of what L and C mean these days.
I'm a Southerner. I don't believe he stole the 2000 election. I voted for him in 2004. He did lie to the country. His response to New Orleans was pathetic. Your knee-jerk response is the "crap" in this exchange.
-Wendell
I recognize poor speaking skills when I hear them, and George Bush was not a poor speaker. Did he mispronounce things sometimes? Yes. Did he get mind farts like the "Fool me once" episode? Sure he did. But to suggest that you voted for his re-election and at the same time tell me that his speech made you cringe....I don't get it.
Also, I don't get why you insist on calling yourself a Liberal. It seems you split your ticket and you have mentioned more than trwice on this forum that you consider yourself fiscally conservative. Wanting equal rights and what you call rights over your own body doesn't make you a Liberal. Actually, you're closer to Dick Cheney politically than anyone else I can think of. And that is not an insult, by the way.
I apologize for saying your post was crap. I should have just said it was not accurate.
bleep
~!
"The Sound of One Hand Clapping is Crashing by Design" HKM
He could deliver a speech quite well. He could not speak off the cuff at all. He was an embarrassment to all but apologists.
I believe liberals are more open to different options than conservatives. That's why I consider myself a philosophical liberal. I support social justice for all and I don't want religion anywhere in my government. I see little difference between radical and fundamentalist christians and muslims. I support abortion rights and gay rights including marriage.
I find being compared to Cheney as a below the belt insult. I consider him evil incarnate and, when VP, the most dangerous man in our government.
Fiscally, I don't think we should ever pass a budget with a deficit. It won't happen as long as the current system exists. Special interests are simply too powerful.
-Wendell
The real power behind the throne.......... Cheney carried more weight than Bush...........a Vice President {whom has no power in government save for breaking ties} that ordered the Air force to stand down during 9/11 .............while supposedly 19 Arab men hijack 4 jets armed with boxcutters, knives, chemical weapons and masks smuggled on board fly around unhindered in US airspace for 87 minutes. Right there is a conspiracy theory................. The greatest air force on the planet helpless for 87 minutes in their own airspace................ridiculous.
Just as surely as one investigates the firemen whom were on site {now all dead} clearly stating they heard bomb explosions. {I heard bomb explosions in one taped episode of that ongoing tragedy}. Nevermind building 7 going down @ 5:30 that same day with witnesses CLEARLY stating they heard multiple explosions {if was only one I would consider natural gas leak}.
"The Sound of One Hand Clapping is Crashing by Design" HKM
You need to sell your conspiracy theories elsewhere. I'm not buying and find them too ridiculous to even discuss. I know you can't resist so I will let you have the last word. Bye....
-Wendell
Well, that took several attempts to walk out the door.
:-)
-Wendell
NT
"The Sound of One Hand Clapping is Crashing by Design" HKM
It sure sounds like his line of bulls**t. Go away, oh wise one. Go spread your gospel to the gullible and socially stunted.
-Wendell
~!
"The Sound of One Hand Clapping is Crashing by Design" HKM
Give me another quote.
-Wendell
"Some of the biggest men in the United States....are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. they know there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive that they had better not speak above their breaths when they speak in condemnation of it "- Woodrow Wilson
"The Sound of One Hand Clapping is Crashing by Design" HKM
Hey Tom,
I'm no fan of Obama, but what does the situation in Iran have to do with military expansion? The President has not sent troops into Iran or North Korea. I don't think we're in Pakistan. We're still in Iraq and Afghanistan. The impression or concern of military expansion is certainly there but we have not done so at this time.
Prior to expansion, a sales pitch must take place to prepare people for such a move. Creating the needed sentiment is a vital part of politics as well as advertising products and the same science is used in both kinds of public manipulation.
For example, "we had to go" to Korea and Vietnam to stop communism and in the case of Vietnam also because the french were not winning and wanted to leave.
We had to conduct the cold war which to Reagan's apparent surprise when it was happening, eventually bankrupt the soviet union and nearly bankrupt us to fight communism too. He got credit for this but while it was happening, he genuinely seemed unhappy about it when on the news.
Must be tough when your "political vehicle" evaporates.
Ok, but who said we were in charge of making the world a Democracy and in retrospect since communism didn't work as a functional system in most countries, how much of an actual threat was it??
Was all or much that whole thing a big sales pitch?
We "had to go" free Kuwait from the great Satan Sadam.
We had to go, after our government (shown on PBS back then, our ambassador April Glaspie i think her name was) told Sadam that it wasn't any of our concern if they took back land that had been theirs in recent history. This wasn't like some ancient biblical endowment, the land had been theirs much more recently.
Then, when they took it back, on TV he became Hitler,the greatest evil on the planet, the biggest threat we faced and the focus of all of our attention. Basically a huge sales pitch to justify the military spending and presence.
General Schwarzkopf and his team who for a change (unlike Vietnam) were left largely in charge elected not to go all the way and take Sadam out, judging (in his own words as best as i recall) that "we would own the place for at least 10 years if we took him out".
So instead they blew up all Sadam's best and most dangerous toys and WMD's and left..
911 was the public justification to go back to Iraq even though there was no connection at all to the event and the country of Saudi Arabia where nearly all the perps came from was and is treated as being beyond reproach.
This also took a big multi pronged sales pitch to suppress the "but why" questions.
Quietly a few had noticed that the big excuses for going were mostly lies and exaggeration (the building blocks of TV promotion) but since our media was part of it and has no memory or conscience, few were concerned.
When our best on ground intelligence decided not to get Sadam because we would own the place for ten years, we went back and took out Sadam for what reason?
The same forces (the powerful lobbying efforts of a foreign country in that area) which have promoted us being in Iraq have for the same 15 years or so, has been lobbying us to invade Iran too.
Curiously, that same very influential country is the only nuclear power in the region, is bristling with high tech weapons and has demonstrated aggression many times and yet our current sales pitch is to get everyone up set because someone else is developing a nuclear weapon.
The Key element of ALL ARMS RACES historically, the basis of the famous old times arms merchant family's approach (which often lead to war) is to supply a dangerous scary weapon that your neighbors don't have.
Being armed to the hilt well beyond your neighbors can be argued as being "defensive" but is seen as and felt as a potential and disproportionate threat.
For example World war one's tensions can be traced directly to the development of the British dreadnought class battleship (the fear factor of a nuclear technology then). This triggered Germany to develop similar ships and then boom boom..
If you have the hardware laying around, the odds of using it go up dramatically, especially if your acting out of silly pride or a politician dealing with other peoples lives and money
The 'sales pitch" that took us to war one then like now always avoids the un-needed or distressing details like that well before the war, the USA was working hard planning ahead and had already constructed a large number (about 500 if i remember) of a new type of dry dock and facilities needed to construct these very large battle ships. It's "as if" the prepared for this war well before is was apparent to anyone else.
Anyway, back to the forces as play now,the reason we are in the middle east militarily now, It may be that Obama will be able to act independently from them or even against their will, but his reversal from his campaign position, further increasing our military funding even beyond bush and involvement there and in other places as well, suggests that we will be involved militarily in Iran and other new places as well.
There is no suggestion Obama recognizes we aren't the worlds policeman and the "universal righter of wrongs"*, in fact he seems to want to out do Bush, we will see.
* like bush, a partisan floating interpretation of right and wrong.
Listen to the media's tone, how things are presented as imperative, in black and white or leaving out one side.
I could be wrong, all that is needed to see is the passage of time.
Maybe we will scale back our military spending to a logical or justified level, but instead i would bet we will continue produce future enemies, to scare many countries with our actions instead.
Peace is only good for a country and even world as a whole, not generally good for the ruling classes, hence it is rulers and their associates that conduct and benefit from war to the detriment of the country and world as a whole.
Like i said time will tell which way we actually go, i am just guessing based on trajectory and how much different Obama's direction is now vs during the "vote for me" promises and posturing phase.
Just listen for the ongoing "the sales pitch" in the media which if successful will eventually coincide with majority opinion.
Like in Curling, there is a fellow with a broom that prepares and influences the trajectory of public opinion in the desired direction.
Often enough, that direction is not in the best interest of the public and the cost is often large for the ones who also pay for it with taxes and lives.
Best,
Tom
Post a Followup:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2009, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
[ Go Green ]
[ Take5 ]
