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I did something I don't normally do ...I entered a deal that I was not 100% comfortable with. Why the worry? Because the seller's ad stated "We will ship, double boxed and expend extra time and effort to try and make sure it is packed really, really well but if we do ship for you then YOU assume any and all risk of damage in shipping."
I didn't like the sounds of that ...but it was a killer deal ...a table and arm for less than the going rate for either of them separately ...and in near-mint condition.
Too good to be true? I thought it might be, which is why I did not post that it was on the way
I asked the seller to pack the table as if he was sending it to himself and once I had gone to Vinyl Engine and gotten up to speed on how the arm came apart I gave him specific instructions on how to pack. Thankfully there was nothing to fear as the seller followed my packing instructions to the letter and even added a few nifty precautions of his own in an effort to have everything arrived safely.
So, what is it?
A Technics SP-15 table with a Technics EPA-500 arm-base and EPA-A250 arm-tube in a Technics SH-15B2 plinth.
This table outclasses the rest of my system by a country mile, so it looks like I'm going to get sucked right back into the upgrade thing yet again. Oh well ...worse things could happen. I really was trying not to spend money on audio anymore ...but this was far too good a deal to pass up.
After a quick and dirty set-up and a few quick spins the difference between the SP-15 and my Luxman PD-272 are readily apparent. I'm using the same cartridge (DL-160), so the comparison is fair. The greatest difference is in the swing department ...the SP-15 pulls you in and gets your toes tapping. Everything is livelier (but not brighter) and there is greater texture ...things are just plain more palpable. The background is silent ...black as night in the desert. The bass is a bit tighter and it passed the "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter" (Overture/Cotton Avenue) test with flying colors. Jaco's bass is subterranean on that cut and my little Mission speakers aren't really up to doing the track justice, but the SP-15 helped their bottom end retain better control than I'd ever heard from them before.
The table weighs a friggin' ton and gets up to speed fast. Press stop and the brakes bring the platter to a swift halt. The arm has the feel of a true precision instrument. I can't adequately convey the feel of the counterweight when setting the tracking force ...its sort of the the same feel as when winding a fine watch.
I'm a happy camper.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Follow Ups:
who snagged this table. I probably live within 10 miles from whence it came.
For whatever reason I was looking at Craigslist in my area when I spied the table. It was still a recent posting so I did a google search to find out a bit more about the table. I also decided to check the Gon to see if I could find out a bit more info when I saw the listing. It was the third item down on the list but it was listed as "sold" already. A quick check confirmed it was the same table as the one on Craigslist. I was heartbroken. So close, yet so far, sigh____!!!!
It really is a gorgeous table.
Congrats
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reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
...and very nice photography!
Hmm, I need to get a real tripod, ....one of these days.
nt
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
That is one fine looking deck, and based on what I've read about SP-15's, I don't think you'll be selling that one anytime soon....if ever.
Congratulations!
(I'm envious!)
Jim
"Nil illigitimi carborundum"
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reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Not in the way that some tables achieve it. It is all go and very little show. Its beauty lies in the engineering excellence it possesses. It doesn't need a polished this or that.
A very sweet rig that I hope you stay with for a lifetime.
Huge Congrats,
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
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reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
When I saw your first picture I was disappointed, thinking you stole it from an 80s promo leaflet.
bring bac k dynamic range
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reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
I appreciate all of the nice words and apologize for giving the anti-Technics folks yet another thread to spout off on.
Thanks also for the compliments on the photography. I have always had great difficulty taking shots of equipment indoors as the flash always got in the way. I think I've found a way around that and am fairly well pleased with the results.
Its just icing on the cake that the table looks good and has the tangible feel solidity and refinement. Its all about the music ...but having it come from a deck that is so well put together is a bonus I enjoy.
Thanks again. I appreciate it.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
That table isn't too shabby either. I would call that a SCORE.
Congrats,
jeff
I never knew what all the fuss was about with the EPA arms, beyond their reputation ...but now that I have tinkered with and heard one, I'm a big fan.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
.
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reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Spectacular time-machine visit to when LP was 'important'.
Congrats !
SQ
wav > foobar > wasapi > usb > nos > vacuum tubes
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reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Sweeet !
Obviously worth the risk.
The only downside I can see is no point in doing any mods ;-)
Regards Ferd
I was thinking of adding an Orsonic headshell. Does that count?
Thanks, Fred.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Re an Orsonic headshell for the EPA-250 tonearm if you do get one I'd go with the 9gr model which you could use with lighter weight cartridges of 4-6gr instead of adding a headshell weight. As you know the Orsonics arn't cheap, figure $100+. The standard Technics SL-1200 headshell is the same weight as the one you have on your EPA-250 tonearm and a lot cheaper but od excellent quality, I'v used a SL-1200 headshell on my EPA-250 TA when I want to swap out cartridges and it works fine. About the only mod/accessory I use is a vintage Orsonic DS-250 Disc Stabilizer. Reelsmith I'm also fortunate enough to have a close cousin of your SP-15, I have a Technics R&B (Recording & Broadcast) SL-1025 (SP-25/EPA-250A/SH15B2). First class photos of a first class TT which was part of the Technics professional series. No wonder the BBC chose Technics SP-10 over any other TT in the world including the UK mfg Rega etc national pride not withstanding. It was for very good reason the Technics was chosen by the BBC apart from reliability/build quality it was the outstanding accurate sonics, PRAT need not apply.
...the auxiliary counterweight for the SL-1200 will fit the EPA-A250?
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Dean the SL-1200 heavy weight will fit the EPA-250 TA. There are a couple of accessories that are interchangable for all practical purposes between the EPA-250 and the SL-120MkII TA, headshell and heavy weight.
Nice deck too. Way to go, and congrats.
"dammit"
I took the pictures the same way a pro does ...I took about a hundred shots and got a few good ones.
:-)
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
.
"dammit"
Great photos. Superb close-up detail shots.
The epa-500 is a fascinating piece of the manufacturers art. I wonder how many Panasonic engineers made contributions to that design..! Every alignment parameter is adjustable... and..... the tonearm/arm tube detaches from the gimbal pivot bearing for quick exchange of arm tubes as well as safe transport. I like it.
The SP-15 motor unit and plinth appear to be 'minty'.
Very nice indeed.
-Steve
Thorens Rules
The table is truly near-mint with the only signs of wear being a few minor smudges on the base. The SP-15 and the arm are clean as a whistle. They look perfect.
The arm is a masterpiece.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Congratulations, and, as usual, great photographs!
Enjoy!
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reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
That's one handsome turntable. Its condition is so immaculate (and the photos are so good) that I thought I was looking at a scan of the original glossy sales brochure. If it sounds as good as it looks, that was one hell of a nice find.
"We lived for days on nothing but food and water." W.C. Fields
That first shot does look reminiscent of a sales brochure.
A stroke of supreme luck.
All shots were taken in "auto" mode ...I know less about photography than I do about PRAT.
;-)
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Coulda fooled me. You did a great job on the pics and it's a gorgeous 'table and arm. I was so taken by its appearance that I'm genuinely curious about its musical performance. For all my relative nick-picks about Technics 'tables, I cut my audio teeth on an SL-1100 and I still own a Technics back-up 'table.
"We lived for days on nothing but food and water." W.C. Fields
It rarely sounds as good as it looks. Rega people should not loose any sleep. On the other hand I can understand desire for PRAT from people using inept speakers like JMR:)
Its 9.99 out of 10!
Its especially nice when they pack it properly.
Cheers!
"Help support our school's Music programs"
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reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Please don't ever post how much you paid for it. I don't want to crap my pants.....
...I wouldn't want you to stain your shorts.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Congrats!
It is an excellent turntable. My SP-15 was free from a radio station. It needed some repair and it's got some 'battle scars', but it's one helluva great performer.
I don't know if you're into spinning 78s, but the SP-15 excels for that purpose.
Don't let anyone tell you any different.
Ultra low noise floor, great S/N ratio, rock solid spead, and a strong motor.
You'll get black(er) backgrounds, higher resolution, unbelivable soundstaging, better imaging, better detail retrieval, and effortless dynamics. You'll also get plenty of PRaT and it'll even be "musical".
Enjoy!
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
> > "You'll also get plenty of PRaT..."
Would you care to elaborate on that? I've heard a handful of Technics direct drives in my system, including two 1200s, an SL-1100, and an SL-Q2, but I've never heard an SP-15. Since you have, how would you break down the latter's strengths and weaknesses in terms of its ability to accurately reproduce rhythm, pacing and timing? If you could touch on all three "PRaT" components individually, that would be particularly helpful.
Thanks.
"We lived for days on nothing but food and water." W.C. Fields
Not really.
That was meant to be facetious. I see the terms "PRaT" and "mucical" used to cover up a shortcoming(s). It's popular in the audio press and I've seen it used online. I might describe PRaT as a Rega P3/P5 that runs fast.
More importantly there is no comparison between an SP15 and "1200s, an SL-1100, and an SL-Q2". The SP 15 is a purpose built professional broadcast instrument. It is not consumer mid-fi. It was engineered from the ground up. It was not slapped together as a belt driven piece of MDF with plastic parts.
Coupled with the arm shown it's a world class music reproducer.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
> > > "I might describe PRaT as a Rega P3/P5 that runs fast."
You might describe "PRaT" as a magical pink unicorn with equal verisimilitude.
> > > "[PRaT is] popular in the audio press and I've seen it used online."
Unlike musically irrelevant terms such as "higher resolution, unbelivable soundstaging, better imaging and better detail retrieval" which the audio press and on-line commentary eschew at all costs?
I now know that the SP-15 can't be compared to any Technics 'table in my experience. It isn't mere consumer mid-fi, and it was engineered from the "ground up" (no Dennett "Skyhook" needed - that's a relief!), unlike those crappy Regas. Oh, and it's "world class," whatever that means.
I appreciate the vague generalizations and glib ad-copy hyperbole, but I really just wanted to know how well this particular turntable plays music.
Thanks anyway.
"We lived for days on nothing but food and water." W.C. Fields
and would give weight to any answer given? Sad.I would suggest you go out a get one.
How does an SP 15 play music? It doesn't, it reproduces it.
My descriptives apply to how it "reproduces" it.
Unless we're talking in "vague generalizations" then asking how a turntable "plays music" without knowing all the variables, or at least some of the ancillary equipment is really meaningless, but then again your question was meaningless wasn't it?
So there you have it.
I think I see the problem now and it's right between your ears.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Edits: 10/10/10
> > > "You honestly ask someone online how something plays music and would give weight to any answer given? Sad."
Don't be sad, Jihad. If the person in question is able to verbally articulate what they hear, and possesses a rudimentary understanding of the fact that accurately reproducing the performance elements of the music has little or nothing to do with the comparatively simple task of reproducing the sonic attributes of the recording, I'll definitely take their opinion into consideration.
> > > "My descriptives apply to how it 'reproduces' [music]."
Your descriptives vaguely address generic sonic attributes and spatial effects, but tell me absolutely nothing about the 'table's ability to accurately reproduce the temporal foundation of the recorded performance. I'm sure it sounds very nice, but that's not what I wanted to know.
> > > "...asking how a turntable "plays music" without knowing all the variables, or at least some of the ancillary equipment is really meaningless."
Then please, fill in the blanks. You're the one who's listened to the 'table.
> > > "...but then again your question was meaningless wasn't it?"
Not at all. You claimed that the SP-15 provides "plenty of PRaT," and I'm genuinely interested in learning more about that.
> > > "I think I see the problem now and it's right between your ears."
As per the Hanlon's Razor quote in your signature line, I'll avoid attributing that comment to malice.
"We lived for days on nothing but food and water." W.C. Fields
(or dog do if you are into that kind of thing) and fight it out. Last man standing is right;-)
You can't cheat and honest man and don't smarten up a chump -- W.C. Fields
.
"We lived for days on nothing but food and water." W.C. Fields
Opus 104
The sp 15 was a purpose built broadcast work horse with little attention to minute sound qualities and it's only purpose was to sustain prolonged abuse of station's DJ's.Its sound is as thrilling as Yamaha NS type of monitor and It is as much of "instrument" as a studios sampler machine.
A big hearty THANK YOU to Wojciech, the 'PRaT Rap Dude' and all the other enlightened "audiophiles" who are helping to spread the word about unworthy, unrefined and crude direct drive turntables.
Yep, no doubt about it, these old 'consumer decks' and 'studio workhorses' simply won't cut it for critical listening in an audiophile's den. Plus, they lack the requisite slick plastic 'n chrome styling and 'cottage industry manufacturer' aura of exclusivity.
Best to bring those old direct drive decks down to the local thrift or put them out in yard sale. Since audiophiles won't touch them, there's a soft market. But there are suckers like me who'll buy them for ten or twenty bucks. :-) Guess dummies like me will never learn.... I've got four direct drive turntables here in the mancave, kickin' out some incredible music. A shame I'm missing all that "PRaT and musicality." :-)
Your heartly welcome Cactus! Thanks to You and alike I was able to sell my SP-25 for 20 times the buying price and afford Rega which althoug looks like $50 gives me much more listening pleasure. If I stumble on good used DD again I certainly will give it a try. Not everybody is looking for technical perfection in this hobby. I had technics and rega side by side .I contacted KAB and they said that it's probably as good or better than modded 1200.I clearly preferred rega with the same Grado Sonata Wood (low output) cartridge which was better suited to Denon arm equipped technics deck. Yes ,I'm bloody idiot that I sold shiny technics with beautiful plinth and kept ugly piece of MDF instead.BUT I'd rather have ugly duckling temperamental bitch in my bed than a stiff beauty which I could study with "great detail" and admire her "built quality'.All the best to you;)
you and me both, $10 and $20 that is!I got pissy if I have to spend more than $50 on a TT, unless it's my SP15 or the like.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Edits: 10/10/10
Sure, but those qualities aren't mutually exclusive.
Have you listened to one?
Resolution and detail are first rate. Frequency and tonal rendition and soundstaging are incredible.
You are able to hear "deeper" into the music as the wow and flutter and rumble are next to nil. I would call that precision engineering.
Try that with an idler drive or low quality belt drive(MH, Rega, NA etc..)
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Good post! .
I've never had SP-15 at home but I did "score" perfect SP-25 I mean as good or better than showed Sp-15 with Denon DA-307 arm .The thing spent all its life under a soft cloth. Probably, because deceased owner of the estate much preferred his Oracle TT (long gone before I've got there).I'm happier with Rega (mine doesn't run fast;)and I don't buy/subscribe into PRAT thing.
I heard many good words from reasonable sources about SP-10 but untill I have direct experience I will disregard all the "studio precison' broadcast quality' etc. as irrelevant
to enjoying music at home.
Regards, W
I have no dog in this fight, but the shortcomings you sensed with your SP25 may well have been due to the DA307 tonearm, not one of my faves, OR to the cartridge you mated with it. This is not ALL about one turntable vs another. But like I say, I have never seen an SP15 or -25 in the flesh, nor a Rega, for that matter.
Lew
You may be right although there is no fight here;)Truth to be told I don't care if its Rega, Technics DD or belt.You pick your poison and struggle along. Regards, W
Jihad: "I might describe PRaT as a Rega P3/P5 that runs fast. ...It was not slapped together as a belt driven piece of MDF with plastic parts."
Amen!
nt
...wine come out of my nose on more than one occasion. He certainly has a wonderful way with words.
By the way ...I highly recommend a nice Cab when reading VA at night ...it really helps take the edge off the cat-fights.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
nt
nt
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reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
and the SP-15s are in my opinion one of the great bargains out there. People who have them don't seem to realize what they are letting go and people who are buying them don't seem to understand what they are about to get. And that one looks like it is in great condition!
Those cost a very pretty penny when new in Japan. Just the motor itself cost 100,000 yen (and this was when Denon's top motor-only DP-80 cost 95,000 yen). With the SH-15B1 plinth the set was 220,000 yen, which was about 15% less than it cost to buy an SP-10Mk2 in full regalia around that time (in its plinth with the EPA-100 tonearm). I think the SH-15B2 plinth was a little less because it doesn't have the big piece of rosewood on the top but it does not perform less well.
That's a keeper.
Enjoy!
...back in the day. I honestly never thought I'd get to own once since they were expensive then and now.
I was just in the right place at the right time.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
So you're the luck guy that got it huh? Nice!
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reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Are you keeping this one? Sweet looking rig! ePay or private seller?
...and will sell the Luxman to help fund it.
It had been on Agon for about ten or fifteen minutes when I saw it. It had a Buy It Now and I knew it would not last long enough to ask the seller any questions. So, I took a chance.
Glad I did.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
It looks like a GREAT deck that will bring your setup up a notch or two. Now go break it in with your favorite albums. Take some fancy shots with the needle hugging a groove.
Brian
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reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Congrats...very beautiful, indeed!
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reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
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