- RE: EAR 864 & EAR 88PB Phono Stage Comparison & Dilemma - DanWKW 19:34:40 11/04/09
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- In Reply to: RE: EAR 864 & EAR 88PB Phono Stage Comparison & Dilemma posted by XLR8OR on November 04, 2009 at 17:34:41
Dear XLR8OR,
Assuming you are using stock tubes(PCC88 & 12AX7) in EAR 88PB & 864.
Assuming EAR 88PB's volume no need to exceed 12 o'clock when directly pushing ARC power. (Note: using EAR 88PB as pre-amp may NOT work in all systems though I found it is my cup of tea)I have auditioned EAR 912 and 88PB as writing some audio reviews a year ago. I have some ideas about 864 though not under a test environment. Here are what I found:
1) EAR 912 phono section would "generally" outperform 88PB(using 912 line stage) especially if I couldn't tailor-make extra short, high quality ICs. I believe you have similar situations(if not problems) when using 88PB as phono hooked into 864's line pre-amp...
2) EAR PCC88 amp circuits sounds more accurate, better resolution, have more high end air, more dynamics than its 12AX7's. Note: EAR 88PB are FETs and PCC88 hybrid circuits and totally different from its 12AX7 circuits.
3) In order to get best results from using 88PB pre-amp, I had/have to do some tube rolling. In my system, the first 3 stock PCC88 have been replaced by Telefunken whilst the last one remains the same. Tim told me in August those are NOS Ei productions. Different brands of tube sounds different.
4) If you're looking for more "transparency" at the top, better high frequency extensions, etc, you may try some Siemens E83CC or Tele ECC803.
5) I don't really understand "The 88PB sounds warmer and more accurate but at the same time sterile and lean in comparison to the weight, transparency, liveliness and depth of sound stage on offer from the 864’s phono stage." But it doesn't matter as I believe you will have different results with different gears, say, if you have Benz Micro Ebony(but not Concerto), Conrad Johnson power amp(but not ARC)...right;)?
6) I agree "tube rolling 864" is the best option for you at this moment.Best regards
Dan
Remember there are a lot of people around the world, who are suffering from poverty and diseases, in need of our help. Please save some for them, find any reliable organizations and donate to them.
Edits: 11/04/09
- Rolling PCC88 tubes - XLR8OR 22:57:10 11/04/09
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- In Reply to: RE: EAR 864 & EAR 88PB Phono Stage Comparison & Dilemma posted by DanWKW on November 04, 2009 at 19:34:40
Dan,
I also own an EAR Acute CD player that uses 2 x PCC88 tubes. The default TdP Ei PCC88 tubes are plagued with problems including very bad mismatched sounding triodes and microphony issues. I have tube rolled the PCC88's in the Acute and have found the Mullard DJ0 Blackburn 1970's A-frame types so far to sound the best with a nice sparkle up the top and in the midrange. If I hook up the Acute direct into my power amp, I get a richer, transparent sound from top to bottom but their seems to also be some leanness and dullness in the midrange. In other words there is no midrange bloom and the sound is very neutral from top to bottom. Through the EAR 864's line stage the Acute rectifies these issues sounding very lively and warm with great bass. The 88PB doesn't exhibit the same trait through the 864's line stage and the sound is greatly compromised, most particularly in the bass region. Connected direct into the power amp, the 88PB sounds better, but as I mentioned before it sounds lean and sterile. I suspect the PCC88 tubes are exhibiting this phenomenon, lacking the much needed midrange warmth.
An interesting observation also is that all three EAR units (Acute, 88PB and 864) use output transformers at the final stage of their circuit design topology to step up the voltage. I very much admire this attribute of EAR preamp units, as I believe it helps greatly improve the sound.
- RE: Rolling PCC88 tubes - DanWKW 01:03:42 11/05/09
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- In Reply to: RE: Rolling PCC88 tubes posted by XLR8OR on November 04, 2009 at 22:57:10
Mullard DJ0 Blackburn? Is it PCC88/7DJ8? Using 2 or 3 tubes in Acute CDP? I have never come across any PCC88/7DJ8 by Mullard Blackburn productions. It seems you prefer midrange bloom to neutrality(or linearity?). I believe Mullard would be your cup of tea, then.
I also buy the ideas of using output transformers like those source or pre-amp equipments produced by EAR and Audio Note. These tube designs usually deliver more organic, energetic, full-bodied/sized sonic presentations(all with positive meanings). I like to mate them with fast, tight, transparent solid state power amps driving full-range, floor standing, 3/4-way monitor speakers.
Tim de Paravicini told me some of his designs could directly drive power amps, of course, including both Acute CD and 88PB. I have heard Acute before. I like its sonic performance but I don't listen much to CD these days nor will I invest more on it in near future. If it could combine the look of an Esoteric VDRS CDP and the sonic performance of an EAR Acute CDP, I may definitely consider buying...
I spent quite some time searching for the "matching" ICs between EAR 88PB and my power amp, be it RCA or XLR, silver or copper or hybrid, solid core or multi-stranded, etc. I now use VDH Orchid as my reference. Using an IC with a bit higher impedance(than the one for your 864 in your case) when driving power amp with EAR 88PB is my choice.
Anyway, vinyls, tubes and transformers are best companions to my ears. How about have a glass of "Grange", too?
Remember there are a lot of people around the world, who are suffering from poverty and diseases, in need of our help. Please save some for them, find any reliable organizations and donate to them.
- RE: Rolling PCC88 tubes - DanWKW 01:03:42 11/05/09
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- Rolling PCC88 tubes - XLR8OR 22:57:10 11/04/09
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