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In Reply to: RE: What's the view on the new Music Matters, The Definitive 45 RPM Blue Note Reissue Series? posted by Joel_Waterman on September 12, 2007 at 13:48:46
With the originals you have?
What's wrong with the Fantasy/OJC reissues?
Really, I can't quickly see the upside to a 45. A little prettier top end from 30-40+ yr old tapes perhaps? Sit down stand up, repeat 4 times per album. Great practice for when you become a US Senator attending a State of the Union speech.
I'd rather see an experiment with a 2-LP cut at 33, where there is *no bass rolloff and a lot less or zero limiting and fat, widely spaced grooves.
The pricing (such a nice round number) is out of hand since there aren't any session costs for musicians, recording engineers, and studio time. Performance and songwriting royalties: How many of these guys are still alive? How many of these tunes are now Public Domain?
These items have: licensing fees/and (probably) unit sales % fees. Mastering house fees. Pressing plant fees.
And add the margin of this unknown company, seeking funding by the pre-order game with an *estimated 2 month lead, which wouldn't surprise me slipped into Christmas shopping season.
I wouldn't be surprised if 1/2 of that catalog slipped into 2008.
The 'pre-order' game is a transparent fundraiser, I don't 'get' 45 RPM LPs, and I'm not thrilled about the 3 major list price catalog houses sniffing that "we are not a discount operation", that is until you say "Thanks. Goodby", when the tune (sometimes) changes.
Follow Ups:
"With the originals you have?"
The one original I have? Limited dynamic range, veiled sound, harshness in the treble, surface noise. it's good but it could be better.
"What's wrong with the Fantasy/OJC reissues?"
mediocre sound
"Really, I can't quickly see the upside to a 45.?
Your inability to see it does not make it not real.
" A little prettier top end from 30-40+ yr old tapes perhaps? Sit down stand up, repeat 4 times per album. Great practice for when you become a US Senator attending a State of the Union speech."
Give a listen to any of the APO Top 100 Jazz on a genuine high end rig and compare to an original pressing and an OJC. Then you will understand the merits of this new series.
"I'd rather see an experiment with a 2-LP cut at 33, where there is *no bass rolloff and a lot less or zero limiting and fat, widely spaced grooves."
Write a letter to RTI and Kevin Gray.
" The pricing (such a nice round number) is out of hand since there aren't any session costs for musicians, recording engineers, and studio time. Performance and songwriting royalties: How many of these guys are still alive? How many of these tunes are now Public Domain?"
These items have: licensing fees/and (probably) unit sales % fees. Mastering house fees. Pressing plant fees."
Yes they do. That is why they cost what they cost.
"And add the margin of this unknown company, seeking funding by the pre-order game with an *estimated 2 month lead, which wouldn't surprise me slipped into Christmas shopping season.
I wouldn't be surprised if 1/2 of that catalog slipped into 2008.
The 'pre-order' game is a transparent fundraiser, I don't 'get' 45 RPM LPs, and I'm not thrilled about the 3 major list price catalog houses sniffing that "we are not a discount operation", that is until you say "Thanks. Goodby", when the tune (sometimes) changes."
preorders are not charged until the product is shipped. As for yje company being unknown i suggest you do a little homework on the guys behind the company
IMO, the music is first, the medium is second. I can listen to Jimmy Smith BNs on cassette or CD and be satisfied if that's all I have. Especially with a catalog like BNs.
I really can't muster the interest in hair-splitting on sound quality of re-issue brands. I either have it or don't. Limited shelf space doesn't help either!
Re: OJCs. Time for a re-listen on my part. Some of those were DMM, and I recall some controversy at the time about that method. I wonder if it's still employed, and if not, why not. However, to state that OJCs have 'mediocre sound' is a bit of a sweeping statement.
Re: BN itself. I wonder who the current owner this week is? They've changed hands more often than (insert comedic punchline here.)
I respect your comments, corrections, and criticisms. These posts are just everyone's immediate thoughts and opinions. The 'other side' in any debate - political or sound quality - feels they are just as correct as I feel about my stance. Luckily, I've learned to adjust (some) positions by listening.
1) There is nothing wrong with originals. Nothing can take away anything from them. They stand on their own. Of course you can hardly find mint versions and if you find them you pay a huge price. You can get the entire 63 title re-issue series for the price of what possibly 4 of the more famous BN's might go for in mint condition.2) I love OJC's. I buy them when I see them in mint/sealed condition, I have many of them and they generally sound great. But if you have heard good 45rpm LP's you'll know that soundwise they are something special when done right. Just compare the APO 45rpm Art Pepper Meets The Rhythm Section against the OJC.
3) 4 sides at 10-15 minutes each does not bother me, in fact you need it, especially when listening to the latest speech by our POTUS.
4) Pricing. I am interested in the business model behind this. Wonder how much net profit they make per disc. Maybe 5 dollars. Maybe more. Less is unlikely because I don't think it would be worth it from a business pov. Though 50 bucks is not nothing, it is very good value when you take into account what I said under (1). And I pretty much trust Steve H's judgment that these things will sound better than many if not all of the originals. That, plus the high quality art work will almost ensure success. These are likely going to be the Blue Note Series to own. Prices are likely going to soar after the series have sold out, so for those misguided souls that are looking at this as an 'investment' there is value here as well.
5) You said: "I wouldn't be surprised if 1/2 of that catalog slipped into 2008." Maybe you misread the announcement, or maybe you meant to say 2009. The first 6 releases will span Nov 07 to Jan 08. The rest (56 or so) will follow in monthly batches of 4. Let's hope they can stick to that initial plan.
Again, I can hardly contain my enthusiasm for this ambitious project. Can you imagine the bulk of the Blue Note catalogue re-issued on 45 rpm! To my thinking this is unprecedented and mindbogglingly fantastic. I respect your opinion about 45's, but I think you should at least buy a couple because I am willing to bet that the sound quality is far better than you predict.
Jw
Hey Joel-
Partly due to your post, I reflected further. Where would I be if I was jsut starting out with 1-3-5 years in the vinyl/jazz record collecting business? That would be a tough proposition.
Starting with Little Richard and Elvis 78s on release, over the decades I've managed to gather some original and re-issues BNs along the way, none of which was over maybe $5.
I may have lost sight of collectors who haven't been at it for as long as some of us more 'senior' types who have never dumped their vinyl collection and slowly added to it over time.
Don't expect miracles. I distinctly recall first listen on a replacement Dutch Polydor pressing of 'Layla.' "Great pressing of a very mediocre recording and mix." A lot of these will still be the annoying early 'hard left-right stereo' since you can't fix the mix in a 2-track session tape. Unless they dump those to mono.
Having said that, I'm thinking there are several Jimmy Smiths' that would probably go on my list. No doubt all of these releases would make killer CDRs. (If this company wishes to re-do the Foghat catalog, then *I would be the excited one.)
I've supported Reference Recordings and Chesky because HP told me to; also Mosaic.
I admire your enthusiasm, and for posting this information.
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