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In Reply to: RE: Technics SL-1200G vs Continuum Caliburn & SAT Arm revealed posted by vinyl survivor on February 11, 2017 at 17:01:10
I'm one of those who found the Technics (in the video) to sound decidedly better - I'm really surprised to find out this was actually the Technics playing and not the recordings reversed.
I guess the Caliburn/SAT combo is off my Christmas wish list.
Regardless of the record being faulty/warped and playing havoc with the Caliburn platter or whatever, at the price difference there's no excuse for the latter not 'winning' IMO.
Though I did prefer the Caliburn on Netania Davrath vocal recording, it's enough for me to seriously think about buying the Technics.
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Follow Ups:
"Though I did prefer the Caliburn on Netania Davrath vocal recording, it's enough for me to seriously think about buying the Technics."
Seriously? Based on this test, you would consider buying the Technics. Don't you think that perhaps it might be a good idea to hear the table IN PERSON?
Well I did say "think about" :)
Moot at the moment anyway as I don't believe the Technics 1200G is even available/distributed in Australia(?).In regard to Fremer's test - well, Fremer is an experienced analog hand and would almost certainly have setup both tables with care. That the Technics clearly (to me) outpointed the Caliburn/SAT, even given the dodgy record, is an ear opening surprise to me. On the vocal track the Caliburn was my preference, but the Technics sounded pretty good too.
The Technics isn't exactly cheap itself, so I guess when it came to the crunch, I'd have to 'weigh it' against other turntables in the price range.FWIW, when I bought my current turntable, more than 25 years ago, there was no demo on the floor. I based my purchase on reviews, company reputation and experience with previous models in the VPI lineup. Ditto for my arm and all the cartridges I currently own.
IME, auditioning components outside my own system only gives a cursory idea of how they might sound in my system/room. As for analog components, with all the setup vagaries pretty much all bets are off. I trust my own cartridge setup skills before anyone else, not because I'm especially talented but because I then know the accuracy with which it was setup.
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Edits: 02/12/17
Yes, but how many places that actually have the Technics available for demo also have the exact same setup that you have in your home? Even demos have their limits on how the table will perform once you get it home in your own system.
That's true of all audio equipment. Unless your dealer allows you to try it at home, it's always a gamble. However, I'd much rather depend on some solid reviews than Fremer's "fun" exercise. Would you buy the table based on that?
No, but I would based on Fremer's complete review that comes out soon.
On the warped lp that made it sound worse by further distorting the grooves. I'm curious if John has ever experienced the same thing with his Sota compared to his technics.
I found it hard to believe vacuum hold down on warped lp would made it sound worse by "further distorting the grooves".
Is there any prove to that?
Thanks!
I can't imagine it either. Vacuum hold-down always reduces groove noise in my system. The vacuum also flattens most warped records so the tonearm is not bobbing up-and-down or else shows significantly less movement. In my system, vacuum always improves sound quality regardless of the condition of the LP.
Best regards,
John Elison
Hi John, I agree! I have heard of audiophiles saying vacuum platter deadened the sound, but I always believed it was due to the lack of (or minimized) resonance which they were so used to with a non-vacuum turntable!
Actually, I was quite surprise to see the tonearm jerking up and down continuously on the Continuum, in the video, even with the vacuum platter!
> Actually, I was quite surprise to see the tonearm jerking up and down continuously on the Continuum,
> in the video, even with the vacuum platter!
Fremer said he didn't use the vacuum system because he thought the record sounded better without it.
John, thanks for the information, I missed that one!
That is interesting; did he take out the rubber vacuum sealing lip too?
Not familiar with the Continuum, but for other turntables with vacuum platters that I have played with, the rubber sealing lips would tend to lift the LP off the platter (or as least lessen the contact) if vacuum was not applied. Is your SOTA like that too?
Again, hard to believe it sounded better that way!
Yes, my Sota is like you describe. I have to use vacuum hold-down or else the vacuum lip will not flatten out and my SME V will drag on the rubber lip. The LP would also not contact the platter near the outer edge. The center of the LP is clamped at the spindle.
I have never played my Sota Millennia Vacuum turntable without the vacuum platter engaged. Rarely do I encounter a record that cannot be "sucked" down to the platter by the vacuum system. When I do find one that won't allow the vacuum seal to engage, I place another record on top of it and that always works. Then I stop the platter briefly to remove the top record and it's good to go. I hardly ever have to do that, but on the few occasions I've encountered, that technique has always worked.
I'm somewhat surprised that Fremer would use such a record for a comparison test. However, I'm even more surprised that his Continuum Caliburn didn't sound better than the Technics regardless of the condition of the record.
Anyway, to answer your question, I have never found a situation in which my Technics SL-1200 actually sounded better than Sota/SME V, although my SL-1200 sounds awfully good in comparison given the significant price difference. Moreover, based on the two comparisons I've heard that included Fremer's super expensive turntable, I've got a feeling that my Sota Millennia might even sound better than his Continuum Caliburn.
I'm certainly not saying that your SOTA wouldn't be better than Fremer's SuperDeck, but there are just too many unknowns to make a hypothetical judgement on a better sounding deck. I would have put variations in alignment and cartridge/arm not to mention phono stage and ADC choices at the top of the list for reasons for differences. I also wonder if he was monitoring the playback on headphones or loudspeakers? (I didn't read the description closely) in which case feedback may be a source of colouration. Now if he had mounted an ART7 in both, you might have a slightly better chance of inferring the relative performance of your system to his. Even then, I would still put setup differences as the reason why I wouldn't ever expect a deck with the same cartridge as mine to sound the same.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
Agree John, I for one found the Continium better in his test video than the 1200, i would like the test if repeated to be done with his system at listening levels while recording , imo, the technics achelles heel has always been isolation ...
Regards
Edits: 02/12/17
Regardless of the problems with the pressing, I still felt the Coliburn was better sounding. It seemed richer and more organic. The timbres had more of a real aspect and there appeared to be more depth.
Almost like the difference between very good SS vs very god tube.
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