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Right now, we have standalone active speakers with an airport express for streaming pandora, etc. Vinyl is it's own stand alone system (but currently in upgrade mode.)
I can definitely see the argument for keeping vinyl separate (cue Ghostbusters, dont cross the streams...) Nevertheless, if you have a streaming option on your vinyl system, what's your set-up/cabling/connection approach? (Is anyone listening to pandora/etc using tubes???)
Thanks for your thoughts
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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Follow Ups:
Like it or not, streaming will be important for the future, and it's already a big deal for most music lovers. My digital rig is a simple one-box solution: Sony HAP-Z1ES digital player (includes DAC). I've ripped all 500 CDs to this unit's internal 1 TB HD (has capacity for external USB HD too). The Sony is a DSD player that upsamples lesser digital files to DSD. To the point of your question, the SONY HAP-Z1ES also streams Spotify, and there's a great iPad/iPhone app included that allows fairly seamless transition between stored music (on the Sony HD) and the Spotify app.
My vinyl rig is Dyna XX2MkII > JMW 10.5i > VPI Aries > ModWright PH-150 Reference phone stage.
What is streaming?
Bluesound Node 2 connected by Ethernet to a NAS, and by RCA cables to the aux input of a ARC SP10. I can control the BSN2 via phone/tablet app. I mostly listen to ripped digital files (when I use it) but sometimes stream internet radio as background music. Rest of system is vinyl and tube based.
Streaming is easy to incorporation- either Bluetooth (inferior in my opinion) or a media streamer of some kind.
Best,
Ross
Yes, I have a PS Audio DSD DAC using AudioNirvana for purchased hi-res downloads and stream Tidal and thecurrent.org (great station). I love convenience of having music playing like this and it sounds incredible. My vinyl rig is well tempered amadeus ii, tsd-15, shindo auriges.
I could , but have other systems where I stream SiriusXM or internet stations to discover new content.
I use the main system for more focused listening.
I'm using just an ebay purchased battery powered A2DP bluetooth receiver. It's tiny but it's great for mediumish fi in my high end vinyl system when I'm forced to listen to something on Spotify or in my iTunes library. It recharges quickly and works for weeks without needing recharging. I think it was like $20.
I have only one system, which I don't necessarily think of as my "vinyl system" (although vinyl gets the majority of critical listening attention). That said, I guess I don't see the benefit of separating analog and digital? (In my case, space constraints would make this an impossibility.) Perhaps digital components should be powered off when analog gear is in use? I normally do that myself and would appreciate further discussion -- especially in light of kitch29's reference to Todd Krieger's advice on this. (When these guys talk, I pay attention!)
In answer to your question, I've kept my streaming set-up as rudimentary -- pathetically so! -- as it could possibly be. And now I'm going to embarrass myself! I use an old Cambridge Audio iD100 dock to connect my iPhone to one of the unused inputs on my DAC via AES/EBU or Toslink. (I continue to experiment with both.) With only two pre-amp inputs (and no desire to add a separate "input chooser"), and with a DAC limited to 16-bit/44.1kHz, I thought this was a sensible way to go (at least for starters).
You mentioned Pandora. I originally set this up (solely) so that my fiancee could stream her Pandora station via her iPhone. I admit that I came to enjoy it (probably too much), too, and we sometimes play "couch DJ" -- taking turns playing songs on Spotify. The convenience cannot be denied! Even if the quality can be. I should look into Tidal, I guess? Eventually, I'll graduate into something more sophisticated. I guess I'm waiting for the day when ripping my CD collection (which I haven't done) is unnecessary because equivalent or better quality is available in a Spotify-like environment. Who knows ... maybe we're already there without my being aware.
You also mentioned tubes. My system (apart from digital) is all tubes -- based mainly around pre-war technology that continues to have a place, I think. If there's "stream crossing," here, it probably has more to do with plugging an iPhone into something that looks straight out of the 1920s. But, it's fun, it makes me happy, and it seems to work for my very limited purposes (and interest-level). Ultimately, I think I'd have to retire a much-loved DAC in order to improve the computer audio experience, and I guess I'm not ready to do that quite yet.
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the reasons for keeping analog and digital separate. It seems hugely inefficient from a financial point of view? But, I might be able to be convinced...
" Perhaps digital components should be powered off when analog gear is in use? I normally do that myself and would appreciate further discussion"
I do this further down in this thread.
HP entry level laptop > 2 AQ Jitterbugs > USB AQ Forest > Schiit Audio Modi 2 Uber > AQ Evergreen RCA to Yamaha Integrated Amp (which includes my Vinyl rig).
Power is always dangerous. It attracts the worst and corrupts the best ... Ragnar Lothbrok
Very helpful everyone - much appreciated. Very cool to see streaming on the tube systems as well!
As a long time Linn LP12 owner (with a 30 year old system), I've a lot of catching up to do. Only just discovered that Linn stopped making analog preamps in 2015 and now have a Network Music Player with analog phono inputs as their intended component downstream of the LP12. (They apparently also stopped making standalone CD players in 2009 - probably not news to any of you)
Anyway, I'll look forward to experimenting and trying out one of the higher res streaming services as well for comparison to free Pandora.
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Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
I rarely listen to Pandora in my home system, but I listen to it in my Toyota Camry almost every day. I like Pandora much better than satellite radio, which I've never purchased after my initial three free months were up. I'm really glad Toyota included the Pandora app in my Camry so I can listen to all my favorite music as I drive.
Best regards,
John Elison
Some dance like Gene Kelly (the ones coming out of my phono cartridge), some like Jed Clampett (the one from the internet streams). Its all entertaining!
I built a separate SFF PC solely to play music files and stream internet audio. It's part of the hi-fi now. I tried to benefit from the discussion on Digital Drive here on AA but that forum seems to be a chaotic, relentless battle between factions and manufacturers leading to no useful conclusions. They can't agree within 2 orders of magnitude how much jitter is audible, Sheesh... My little PC has all my CD's in it, around 2000 all in and I love having it play back through the DACs in my digital/theater front end (Lexicon MC-12). It is an essential part of the audio landscape here at the Bearcave- for instance it sure makes National Public Radio sound like Mara Liasson is right in the room speaking to you!
No reason they can't share the sound system downstream, if the digital stuff is at a sufficient level of resolution that it does't scream at you like fingernails on the chalkboard. I find that at modest listening levels, my system sounds about "as good" as FM radio when listening to internet streams of 192kBPS or better. I love "Radio Paradise" streaming radio and it has 320kBPS AAC which sounds indistinguishable from CD's on my system. I understand that is a function of the limitations of my system and hearing, both.
I suppose if the streamed stuff is a very highly compressed, lossy CODEC, one wouldn't want to play it in a way that you can her every hideous artifact loud and clear. Bluetooth and much "You Tube" audio falls into that category.
I try to be more tolerant of range of quality levels in any media "streams". 95% of my 3000 LPs are from before the Vinyl Gotterdmmerung (1983- commercial deployment the CD) and 50% are below average! Many have serious distortion, audio compression, high-pass filtering, noise, and every other sonic glop. I just like the music. Ditto for streamed stuff.
Glad you said Jed and not Buddy Ebsen. You probably know Buddy was quite an accomplished dancer. Not sure I'd put him in par with Fred, but Buddy weren't no slouch.
I figured that it was worth a try, so I just tuned in to "Radio Paradise" on the Cambridge. They were playing a tune called, "Majesty" by a band I'd never heard of - Madrugada. Excellent stuff, and a very good quality signal to boot. Thanks!
...that CD Players connected to the same pre-amp as analog devices degraded the sound of the analog (Turntables).
Todd's a stalwart at AA although seldom seen on this board which is surprising because he was so anti-digital back in CDs heyday.
I detect no degradation of my Phono system with the $50 Bluetooth device connected to it but between the low gain, subpar output of the Ipad and less than stellar Itunes streaming the sound is pretty much, as the Bear points out, like FM Radio.
I like FM Radio.
...and I joined the fracas! In 1984 the first CD's really did sound like crap, the recording and mastering equipment I think took 50% of the blame and the terrible home CDP's the other 50%. There also has been a long gradual conditioning period for our ears... truth be told. Rememebr when Ry Cooder said he wanted to destroy all the CD's of "Bop Til You Drop" because the digital sound was so bad? He was right. But that was then, this in now...
Today, a complete slam of all digital sound is obviously totally inappropriate. I have always said that the real listenability of recording is about the musicianship, focus, and energy that went into making of the disc. We have to broaden that to include the disc, the file, the stream, the chip, whatever. You learn to listen through the hiss, static, pops, tics and whatever if the music is beautiful!
Hell, I was a kid BEFORE FM broadcasting became widespread. Imagine Baby Bear in the basement electronic shop listening to this monster Crosley (?) AM console radio with a 10" electromagnet-speaker, stations from New York radiating the mellow tones around 1960 or so...
Absolutely.
I got one of those little bluetooth boxes for $40 from Outlaw, plugged it into the "aux" on my Denon PMA-750 (soon to be a Yamaha CR 2020..yay!) and I connect the iPhone or Fire tablet or my netbook to it and stream away.
Those little boxes bring anything, no matter how old, right into the 20th century.
How does it sound? Who cares? It sounds good enough for a party or dinner or just puttering around the house. I'm equipping every vintage system I have with one.
The sound of the highly compressed Bluetooth CODEC is like listening to music on 8-tracks in the car, with the engine running, going thorough the carwash... it's just bizarre-sounding.
You're probably right but as I use it for background during parties and stuff like that it has never bothered me.
I guess if it did I would hook up to the aux directly through an adapter cable but since most popular (and free) streaming services compress the shit out of the stream anyway, what difference does it make?
If you're paying for a high rez stream that's different. However, when I want high rez I play a record. :)
Yes, sort of. I have a Bluetooth receiver/DAC combo plugged into the pre so the Mrs. can play her phone, or Pandora.
I don't think there is a valid argument for keeping vinyl separate from streaming. I can stream Pandora and I have a tube preamp and a tube phono stage.
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sitting atop the amplifier?
If you are asking if my vinyl front end and my digital front end share the same amplification and speaker system then, yes.
A laptop PC is used to stream Qobuz and BBC R3. It also plays my rips and downloads via JRiver MC. That is connected to my dCS digital processors and then to an EAR Yoshino preamp to which my turntable/arm/cartridge is also connected as it contains the phono stage for the vinyl side of things. The output from the preamp is sent to active ATC speakers.
I don't understand the rationale of a separate vinyl system if the equipment is both good for digital and good for vinyl and you aren't trying to play both simultaeously. There is also the question of the additional real estate taken up. In my case enough of this has been sacrificed already :-)
NB: With such setups for some combinations of equipment it may be best to turn off the digital stuff while playing records. Some digital processors cause a lot of EMI/RFI which can be picked up particularly by the sensitive circuitry in the phono stage. It doesn't affect me currently but older systems that I owned back in the early days of CD were very prone to this. Not a good circumstance with DACs using resistor ladders where temperature needs to be kept constant (resistance changes with temperature) thus meaning they should ideally be left switched on.
I have an Echo Dot hooked up to my pre-amp with a 3.5 to RCA cable. My system is all tube. The tubes don't improve the sound much. I also have an Audioquest Dragonfly DAC and iPhone connector that I can plug the Echo cable into to get Tidal. If I set up one of my old macbooks I could even get 24/96 from that setup, but limited to 16/44.1 with the iphone. I'm listening to 24/96 right now on my headphones on the iMac in the next room. I'll have to say it sounds pretty good.
"Alexa, turn on the tubes. Alexa, play classic jazz on Pandora". And the tubes glow and I get jazz. When I want to play vinyl I have to get up and put the record on, Alexa won't do that for me, nor will she get me a beer ;(
What is the argument for keeping vinyl separate?
I have a Miccus Blutooth receiver connected to my pre-amp and a subscription to Itunes family plan for those days when I can't get up to choose and flip records.
Tubes all the way.
If I could make a tiny suggestion. We are no doubt all guilty but before taking photos....
I am sure that similar or alternative products are available locally.
nt
A major sonic improvement on Ytturbium, Europium and Ytrium, we call it Auditorium.
It's a special damping compound which musn't be disturbed.
Damn, my lack of technical sophistication lets me down again!
That's not grime, its armor-plating / exoskeleton.
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