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I have a Lyra Delos that should have some more life in it and it still sounds real good. Yesterday I finally got a strong enough magnifier to see the stylus up close and I was shocked. It was like every photo posted here of a gunked up stylus. I've been using an AT637 ultrasonic thingy... so it's clear those don't work. Also been using Lyra SPT. I've gone through everything I can think of, magic eraser, blu tak, and zerodust and I just can't get it completely clean. There's still gunk at the base of the stylus that goes half way up. The tip is exposed and clean but I can't figure out that last bit. Is there a solution?
Follow Ups:
Joe: Do you happen to have a digicam with with reasonably good macro mode, so you could provide a pic? Because maybe you're just confusing the blob of glue, that surrounds the tip shank in case of tips that are glued onto bevelled surfaces of non-pierced, rod type "exotic material" cantilevers, with gunk.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
I use Stylast on all my cartridges. I apply Stylast before every side of every record and I brush the stylus with Last's stiff bristle brush after each side is finished playing. The stylus remains pristinely clean at all times.
I used to remove my cartridges periodically to look at their styli under a high-powered microscope, but they always looked pristinely clean. Therefore, I've been applying Stylast religiously for 30-years and it works for me. I never have to clean the stylus with stylus cleaning solvent---only Stylast before every side of every record religiously.
Good luck,
John Elison
PS. These are actual pictures of my DL-103R and my DL-S1 styli to show you how clean they are. It's also interesting to note the difference in size. Both pictures were taken with the same magnification showing how massive the DL-103R stylus/cantilever is compared to the DL-S1.
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I also agree with the effectiveness of Stylast. I also use Last record preservative, and a VPI record cleaning machine, and a Zerodust and an Ortofon stylus brush, and I also examine my stylii under a Wild-Herrbrugg microscope every once in a while. Other than that I tend to be a bit if a messy person. It is important to have priorities. ;-)
Your photos are great with good depth of field.
I bought a microscope USB camera from eBay. It fits into the third ocular on my microscope. It seems to work okay but I don't get the kind of pictures that some people with USB microscopes get.
Best regards,
John Elison
looking via a fairly strong magnifying glass with built in strong light my stylus *seems* at least as clean as yours. I brush after each side with a soft squirrel hair brush, occasionally use magic eraser and Onzow.But my cantilever, while not totally grungy by any means, sure doesn't seem as clean as yours. Apparently you are also brushing your cantilever, right? That's something I'd be a bit leery of due to the migration possibility. OTOH I guess you've never had a problem with that. I have some Stylast. Maybe I'll try what you do.
Edits: 01/17/17
At least I was told that one time.
Opus 33 1/3
I was told this in the 80's but I don't buy it. I use it religiously and I have never seen anything on the magnets of my MM cartridges.
Dave
a CM or two.
Opus 33 1/3
nt
Been using it since I saw a 3yr old, heavy use stylus under the microscope. It was pristinely clean and had no visible wear. I use both the treatment and the cleaner.
Dave
.
Opus 33 1/3
brushing with the stylus brush pictured in bcowen's post below. I also add Discwasher SC2 fluid to the brush. I also change locations on the magic eraser surface as mentioned below.
I had a Shure M91ed cartridge with a stylus that was completely covered with debris. I actually thought the stylus was missing, as there was only a large semicircular blob on the end of the cantilever. After using the procedure above, I ended up with what you see in the picture above.
As mentioned in posts below, a glued stylus may have two sections, a base of some material with a diamond tip on top. The base material may be dark in color and even slightly corroded in some cases. That base material may be as clean as you are going to get.
a neglected stylus covered with gunk and not my daily procedure.
Daily, I have been using Discwasher SC-2 fluid and a Stylast brush since the 60s. I do have a bottle of stylast, but I have never tried it. Unfortunately, I have a lifetime supply of SC-2 fluid.
i found the AT637 very effective to lean the really dirty stylus . you may have to apply a drop of Lyra SPT to the AT637
I used to frequent this site relgiously 10+ years ago. Back then a really nice gentleman posted once in a while. It turns out that he was the chief designer and owner(?) of one of the very high end, well known cartridge lines as in Lyra or Koetsu. Does anyone remember his name?
The reason I bring this up is back then I asked him about cleaning debris off my cartridge. I remember when I looked at it under a microscope it was covered in all sorts of dust and debris. He was nice enough to answer my question directly, I respected the hell out of that. Yes he did say do this at your own risk, a small mistake will turn it into trash but he didn't hold back. His thread covered everything from the sytlus to the exposed coils on nude cartridges.
I bet all on this thread would find it really interesting so I wanted to launch this question to help me back track and find the thread. As I recall his name was not American sounding, any chance any of you remember his name? If you do, let us know and I'll find the string as an FYI.
One of the things I do recal, and wound up using it many times was:
Assumption: you have access to a micoscope for this. Dont' need very high power.
Warning (Joe you mentioned this above) - Keep ANYTHING magnetic away from these cartridges. You can not possibly react fast enough if the cartridge start to pull it in.
Debris: Take a plain old tooth pick or two. Dip them in rubber cemement, leaving. Put them aside and let them start to dry until they are tacky. Just tacky enough to pick up dust and debris, but will not leave a trace.
Gently touch the coils or the cantilever to grab the debris. I've done it dozens of times on expensive carts, works very well.
More info in the string if I can find it. Looks like the archives only go back to 1999, this is probably later than that. Let me know.
John
Jonathon Carr, back in 2000.
Regards,
Phil
In the post above this, Tirgersmoke (Thanks Phil) found the link I was referring to. I'm betting > 99% of you will enjoy reading it so I have posted this message with a better subject line to catch your eye. Just click on the link he was kind enough to find and see what you think. I remember I was so impressed that Mr. Carr took the time to get into such detail. Hey it works, I've used it many times.
John
I forgot how good this post was. Thanks Phil. John
If your stylus tip is clean... I would stop there.
What you want to clean off may be what is holding the shank to the motor.Not all stylus shank to motor have a perfect clean looking connection. Some just look messy.
So I say LEAVE IT ALONE.
As long as the diamond tip is clan that is 'good enough'.
Trying to do too much may ed up with a destroyed cartridge.
Edits: 01/16/17 01/16/17
When I was in the business in the 80's, I would check the stylus of customers cartridges daily under the microscope. Many were horribly gunned up. Everyone that did this for a living (that I knew) used Audio Technica Stylus cleaner. One trust would make the needle sparkling clean under a powerful stereopticon microscope. I still have a bottle and I use it, but only occasionally. IMO it is too strong for daily use. For that I use Sylast cleaner and lube. Unfortunately I can't speak for the new AT Stylus Cleaner. I use the old stuff, and I think it has chemical that you are not allowed to use anymore.
Dave
For really stubborn crud, I have drawn a flat toothpick across the diamond as if it was a violin string. With the cartridge vertical (pins pointing up), the weight of the toothpick is all you need, so hold it such that it is almost falling out of your hand. This seems a little scary at first, but it's easier than it looks.
Dark energy? Ridiculous!
We live in an electric universe.
With Magic Eraser, and this suggestion below posted by Bcowen, you should be able to clean it up with a little patience and diligent effort. In the future using Magic Eraser after each listening sesssion will keep your stylus pristine.
BCowen - I would recommend a good stylus brush and some quality liquid stylus cleaner (Record Research Labs, Last cleaner, etc). I always apply the liquid to the stylus brush rather than the stylus itself -- get the brush good and saturated with the cleaner and then pull it gently along the stylus. This way you don't have to worry about the liquid migrating up the cantilever and getting into the coils. If the crud you have is baked on it may take some time and patience, but I've cleaned up some incredibly cruddy stylii for friends using this method.
A cheap and VERY effective option is to lower the stylus onto a lump of Blu-Tac.
Expert stylus amongst other retippers do not recommend the use of liquids because of the wicking that can occur up a hollow cantilever which will affect the damping elastomers over time (potentially).
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
Because that's what I've been dealing with. That's what started this whole round of changes to my system. I though it was the vintage arm and I've bought something more modern, which hasn't arrive yet... but in the meantime I check the cartridge and find the gunk and things are just more dull than they were a couple months ago when i swapped out one TD124 for a rebuilt one. If not the gunk, can a cartridge that's starting to reach the end of it's life sound dull? It's certainly playing clean... no distortion and it tracks fantastically.
This is a frustrating hobby.
" can a cartridge that's starting to reach the end of it's life sound dull? "
Yes, for MCs that is often caused by the coils becoming magentised over time. This being the reason that cartridge demagnetisers are produced. If you have the original Delos instructions you may find that Lyra recommend the periodic demagnetising of the cartridge. They certainly do in the instructions for my Skala.
Unsure about your idea of trying LP#9. This may be "more of the same" as it also contains a lubricant. I certainly heard the difference with a Lyra Clavis DC when I cleaned off the residue with Disc Doctor's stiff brush. Whether this could be judged an improvement or not is, however, a matter of personal taste.
So if I accidentally used a magnetized screw driver near the cartridge that would be bad. I actually did this.
No, I doubt that any stray field from a magentised screwdriver nearby would result in the magnetisation of the coils in the cart. This magnetisation builds up over a long period of time through normal use.
although the recommendation is NOT to dag the stylus through the ME, i have done so ever so slightly without negative results. the diamond comes out looking as clean as the instant the diamond was cut.
...regards...tr
I would never "drag" a stylus across a ME. I've cut a ME pad into smaller pieces and place one of those on the plinth next to the platter. Then I use the arm cueing to lower and raise the stylus into the pad 5-6 times. I follow that with a brush (back to front) a few strokes across the stylus to make certain no micro fibers remain to damage a record.
Also I don't understand another comment that the ME does not clean the entire diamond. When I dip the stylus into the pad as described that is done with whatever force I've set for VTF. Clearly the entire tip penetrates right up to the cantilever. If the tip is dirty you should see a dark spec on the ME pad after raising the arm. When I see that I move the pad just slightly so the next contact when lowering the arm will be to a clean area on the ME.
"The piano ain't got no wrong notes." Thelonious Monk
I dipped the stylus on my SoundSmith retipped DV 20 XL for most of its life. When I sent it back to be re-tipped again, SoundSmith said it was exceptionally dirty. They recommend dipping into Blu-Tak. I don't find it all that effective. Now I've gone back to the old carbon fiber brush pictured above. I brush before every side, and when things start to sound a bit dull, I do a cleaning with Mobile Fidelity's #9.
Yes, me too. I used an electric carving knife to make slices of ME that are maybe eighth of an inch thick or so. Lay the slice down on the platter. Hold one end of the slice with left index finger to keep it in place, and use right hand to hold the arm/cart. I just do the up/down manually without using the cuing lever. As I said, I also do it with sound unmuted and turn down quite low so I can hear what I am doing.
I have done this once after reading on another board that it's ok. I've been thinking of upgrading the Delos so I'm willing to absorb some risk. I just found LP9 in my drawer and I think I'll try that a few times then try the ME again with a gentle drag.
One other tip ... unmute but keep volume low while doing the ME thing. I find it helps me to hear what I am doing to help avoid dragging it through the ME. You may have drop and lift many times. I usually do ~15 to 20 and tiny bit of dragging has never hurt mine. Maybe dragging is not the right word. Wiggling in the ME might be a better way to describe it.
you try it with NO drag, that's the critical bit, or you'll be looking for the critical bit of your cart. Just dip it gently.
I remember Linn advising users of the AT ultrasonic thingie back in its heyday, that in order to get it to work properly you needed to switch it on and leave the stylus on the pad for a minute or longer.Many stylus cleaners (including SPT) contain a lubricant. It may well be that over a period of time sufficient of it migrates up the stylus to form an accretion at the top. Maybe this is the cause of your problem? Or is the use of SPT only recent?
I recommend Disc Doctor's stylus cleaner as it has no additives such as lubricants (neither does his record cleaning fluid, again unlike some). His policy is to get the dirt off and leave the groove and stylus perfectly clean. To aid this the fluid comes with a stiff brush, used dry, to wipe off the coating that may have been formed by the use of other cleaners ( or at least did come with it - I haven't bought a replacement bottle for a few years). It is stiff enough to be recommended for that initial cleaning only.
I would try this and then quite a few passes with a softer stylus brush (there are now carbon fibre ones available) with the fluid. As always try not to get any on the cantilever.
Edits: 01/15/17
Actually, Linn recommended the striking pad on a book of matches. No lie.
" Linn recommended the striking pad on a book of matches"
They did indeed. However this was until they discovered " green stuff". This was a sheet of green pastic one side of which was coated with a metallic oxide, the latter acting as a very fine abrasive.
The point of all of these was the same, whether it be the long running of the AT ultrasonic cleaner, the match striking pad or the green stuff. All related to their discovery that in practice some crud that ended up on the stylus became virtually fused to it and was too difficult to remove with the conventional brush and liquid approach of the time. As the OP seems to have found out for himself.
In retrospect it seems no more extreme than using Magic Eraser, a block of melamine foam abrasive, for this purpose, .
The difference between Magic Eraser and both match striking pads / green stuff is that you can actually dip your stylus completely into the abrasive material with the Eraser. The others will only ever contact the very tippity-tip of the stylus...that ain't cleaning anything!
I would recommend a good stylus brush and some quality liquid stylus cleaner (Record Research Labs, Last cleaner, etc). I always apply the liquid to the stylus brush rather than the stylus itself -- get the brush good and saturated with the cleaner and then pull it gently along the stylus. This way you don't have to worry about the liquid migrating up the cantilever and getting into the coils. If the crud you have is baked on it may take some time and patience, but I've cleaned up some incredibly cruddy stylii for friends using this method.
Mr Clean Magic Eraser.I just did a long overdue stylus cleaning on my Audio Technica ART 9.
For the past 1 1/2 years I just used the supplied brush. After noticing I couldn't see the diamond because of accumulating gunk, it was time to go the hardware store and pick up a box. Get the ORIGINAL version. The other has a side an abrasive not applicable for use.
A few dips, followed by the IME useless Onzow, then the brush to remove stray fibers of the ME, it looks brand new. Get you some of that.
EDIT: I failed to see you did use the ME...nevermind
Edits: 01/15/17
Is the stylus nude mounted or is it mounted to a bushing of some other material? Could it be you are looking at the bushing that is mounted to the diamond stylus?
The website says nude stylus, surface mounted. So that's no bushing, right?
Right. It's not the bushing so it looks like you have 100% gunk. I don't know why Zero Dust isn't getting the job done unless the gunk has dried up onto the stylus. Maybe use a fine water color-type paint brush with plain water going back to front will loosen the gunk.
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