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In Reply to: RE: and just think... posted by Lew on December 04, 2016 at 10:56:00
If not, how do know the SP10 is as good? Linked is an updated SP10 for less than 25% of the Artisan Fidelity modded SP10. Buy this one and you could spend another 10 grand on mods and still have spent around $20,000 less than the AF SP10.
I've never heard even a stock SP10. Just based on all the reports I've read about both the SP10 and Artisan Fidelity I'm pretty confident the AF SP10 is a VERY good tt. But IMO that price is sucker bait.
BTW - I'm no fan of the VPI and GP prices either, both of which cost considerably less than $38,895.
Follow Ups:
I said as much in my post.
However, I also do not dump on stuff just BECAUSE it is expensive, unless we are talking about a $500 AC outlet, or something of that ilk.
Yes, I've heard the VPI, but not in the same room and system as a Mk3, and no, I have not heard the GP. You could fairly criticize me for having said that a well updated and re-plinthed Mk3 would sound at least as good, with no direct evidence, but that is my private belief. Confession: I own a very tweaked Mk3 (which I bought NOS, so not "used") in a 100-lb slate and wood plinth, and I like it very much. Total investment, less than $10K + tonearm.Keep in mind I was responding to User510 who posited that the VPI and GP would be better just because they were newer in design and build and cost a bit less than $39K. I in no way meant to denigrate either the VPI or the GP. To say that they may be in the same league with a massaged Mk3 is high praise, in fact.
EDIT. Wish I had kept quiet about my unfounded opinion on how the VPI and GP might compare to (my) SP10 Mk3. Suffice to say that I am very happy with my Mk3. I found it NOS about 9-10 years ago. Bill Thalmann replaced all electrolytic capacitors using Nichicon or ELNA Silmic, and Bill calibrated it. I built a very heavy slate and hardwood plinth for it. (I first auditioned it with the slate only, and it was excellent. But when I added the hardwood sub-base, bolted to the slate, the table got more quiet and more neutral. Constrained Layer Damping, maybe.) After a few years, I had Bill do the "Richard Krebs" mod on the drive system, and that made the sound even more neutral and more "musical" or continuous, more like the sound I associate with coreless motors in DD turntables. So it was a long road to get to where I am now. I would relish the opportunity to compare it to the VPI or any other high end DD turntable in the same system, but someone else will have to carry it; I cannot lift it.
Edits: 12/05/16
If you want to buy a direct drive made in the last century you should be enjoying a CD player or computer made in the last century, it's the same thing. The sophisticated drive system in the VPI cost more to make than the whole SP-10 did and required a Cal-Tech computer expert to come up with the programming. I have an SP-10-3, a JVC-TT101, a Kenwood LO-7, and a Micro Seiki DDX-1000, they pale in comparison to the new designs.
No one loves old stuff more than I do but drive systems designed in this century are so much better than the old stuff it is not even close.
HW
Apart from the SP-10MK2 morphing to MK3....you said those same 'old' decks were "wonderful"..
I find this to be a very interesting subject about which I know only basics. When comparing solid state devices, like turntable drive systems, I would think that there are two possible ways in which a modern one should be superior to one that is 30 years old in design (the term "last century" loads the dice too much; after all, we are not talking about 100 years). (1) The modern design could make corrections much faster, by virtue of using faster transistors and/or op amps, and (2) the modern design could use brand new ideas about how to do the job of maintaining absolutely constant speed regardless of load variation, but still, in the end, speed has to be monitored somehow, and speed corrections have to be made once in a while, somehow. Can you say how the VPI DD turntable excels in these respects?
The L07D is nearly an opposite to the Mk3 in that it uses a coreless motor (vs the 24 pole motor in the Mk3) and speed corrections are deliberately kept at a minimum, whereas the Mk3 servo is always "working". The L07D seems to depend more upon platter inertia to maintain exact speed. I grew to believe that coreless motors are superior for DD, all other things being equal. Like I said, this is based only on my superficial knowledge and my ears.
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