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A post earlier got me to thinking that I rarely read anything and have no memory of ever seeing anyone rating cart/stylus for how well it preserves the vinyl.
It's always said that 78 needles gouge out the shellac but I never hear about LP needles and whether one or another is less damaging to a record.
I would think that most of us, having spent more on software than any other aspect of vinyl playback (at least I hope that's accurate) would want to balance quality and the preservation of the collection.
Yet I never see that as a "stat" when reviewing carts. Unless the reason is that the various modern cartridges and styli on the market all affect the vinyl in such a small way that it is a moot point? Does anyone even know?
Follow Ups:
Many papers have been published on the subject and you will find a number at the VinylEngine.
All styli damage the record. The question is the rate at which it occurs and WHEN the damage becomes audible. The main parameter is pressure (force per unit area). Obviously, the lower the pressure, the slower the rate of wear. The finer the tracing radius, the longer the bearing radius needs to be.
So a "good" cartridge is one with the highest compliance to ensure a low VTF that still meets the requirements for the LF resonance based on arm effective mass and enables the highest LF amplitude cut to be tracked, low tip mass to ensure HF trackability, and ideally zero horizontal tracking error. Then put the stylus with the longest contact line to minimise the pressure on the groove wall. At present, my "best" cartridge would be a Denon DL304 which meets all of the above except for the stylus profile being a hyperelliptical and not one of the longer LC types.
A 0.2 x 0.7 mil (5um x 18um) elliptical is about the harshest profile to play a record with in terms of wear - the VTF needs to be <1.25g to avoid significant wear damage which occurs after as little as 10 plays according to Shure research.
Shure used to include a chart rating the wear of their different styli using the Indentation Factor.
These days, you won't find that level of information - many exotic cartridges have lowish compliance which undoes the benefits of the long contact styli supplied with them and tend to have poor tracking ability although there are a few exceptions.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
As I recall, some tech types were very enamoured of the "micro-ridge" shape that Shure introduce on the V-15 5MR (for micro-ridge). I believe ZYX uses that shape today, and I don't know how many others.
Getting fulsome information today is exasperatingly difficult, but we've brought that on ourselves by accepting that "how it sounds" is the same for everyone and obviates all other knowledge relevance. Still, though it's rarely properly examined, information provided by many cartridge manufacturers is, if accurate, more helpful than that for turntables by far.
Jeremy
The attractive feature of the MicroLine is the almost constant radius of curvature for the scanning surface as the tip wears. Additionally, the scanning radius is 3um (0.12mil) which puts it in amongst the tips which most closely resemble the cutting tip and provides the widest frequency response and least distortion especially on the inner grooves. The patent actually suggests an even smaller radius, but the limiting factor is the strength of the ridge - if the tip is damaged or chipped, the destruction of the groove is assured. Dynavector used to use the MicroRidge as well and Audio Technica continue to use it as does JICO for the "SAS" tipped styli.
My personal preference is for technical excellence and minimising wear, but I accept that euphonics are equally important for some people. For this reason, the Shibata tip has become popular again and is a surprisingly choice for premium cartridges such as the Ortofon "Black" series ahead of the lower models sporting more modern LC designs which I find curious! Audio Technica have followed suit by replacing the Microline on the 150 with a Shibata and also the AT33Sa. The Shibata is one of the first generation of LC tips developed in the early 70s. It is fundamentally flawed in that the contact line is curved not straight and this introduces distortion. However, the sound is apparently very appealing (according to reviews and marketing hyperbole) compared to the Microline. Each to their own!
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
Flood2:
My limited experience tends to accord with your suggestion that Shibata produces h. f. distortion and does so even though the profile was devised to allow greater ease of tracking higher frequencies. In that sense, I have not found the few Shibatas of my (somewhat dated) experience to be "euphonic" -- i.e., the distortion did not add beauty.
Are MicroLine and MicroRidge the same thing?
Thanks,
Jeremy
Hi
MicroLine, SAS (Super Analogue Stylus as named by JICO) and MicroRidge are variations of the same basic design. There are subtle differences in the bearing radius and "ridge" thickness (the patent is fairly broad and specifies a wide range for the scanning dimension between 0.5um up to 15um - the lower limit being restricted by the mechanical strength of the ridge feature) and polish.
The Shure MicroRidge has a slightly larger scanning dimension of 0.15mil (3.8um) vs 0.12 mil for the MicroLine. The bearing radius is 3.0mil (76um) for the MicroRidge. The bearing dimension of the MicroLine is not disclosed in the specifications provided by AT but the range is typically between 70 to 80um.
The Shibata revival really puzzles me! The alignment of the tip is particularly tricky not just in use, but in manufacture - the contact line (curving aside) is not on the central axis line from the centre of the shank to the apex, it is slightly in advance (hence the curved line). Therefore the SRA is actually defined by the cut - one cannot use the USB microscope method which sets the shank/tip angle. I don't know how consistent the cuts can be made, but any lateral asymmetry will not only automatically introduce a zenith error, but potentially different effective rake angles in the channels. The "rake" angle of the tip itself in the cantilever can further introduce an error on top of this.
It is a very challenging tip to get to work optimally and it is readily beaten in technical capability by the more modern designs.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
nt.
Mark in NC
"The thought that life could be better is woven indelibly into our hearts and our brains" -Paul Simon
n
.....it seems that the line contact stylii made for most of the major cartridge manufacturers are made by Namiki, Ogura or van den Hul, resulting in profiles that are more similar than different.
Flood gives a great overview however I would add that too low a tracking force can cause a cartridge to lose contact with the groove wall, causing far greater damage than too high a tracking force.
Vinyl records seem to hold up pretty well to abuse; if they didn't we probably wouldn't relish the sound of those Columbia six-eyes from the late 50s and early 60s, though it may be argued that line contact stylii are playing a different part of the groove.
Life's too short for me to worry about such things though.
You make a very good point with respect to the durability of records. The models on record/stylus wear don't take into account the temperature of the tip and the plastic deformation that occurs. With conical tips, the temperature of the tip can get up to 140°C (as determined by AJ VdH). This will certainly soften the vinyl.. as VinylFlat users will attest to!
I remember reading about CD-4 records and the research that was conducted into material hardness/durability. JVC played the records with a conical stylus at 3g (IIRC) for about 300 plays without loss of the rear carrier signal. Therefore, in practice, I think the rate of wear (to the record) is somewhat lower than one might expect assuming a rigid surface in contact with an object that is scraping past said surface.
" too low a tracking force can cause a cartridge to lose contact with the groove wall"
Very true. However, just to clarify, the point I was making was with respect to compliance and suspension design. The effective mass of the arm will be a limiting factor on high you can go with compliance before you push the LF resonance too low (less than 8Hz), so my comment about low VTF was constrained by tracking ability requirements and effective mass of the arm. In general I always start at nominal and verify tracking ability to achieve at least 70um (~+15dB). I never drop below nominal even if I do significantly better. For example my DL304 achieves +18dB at 1.2g which is actually greater than 100um on my HFNRR test disc. No way I will drop that for any theoretical reduction in record wear due to pressure as (as you pointed out) greater damage will occur if the signal amplitudes are large at HF.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
The old 78 story is back in the days of 78's.. The stylus WAS a steel needle. Which needed to be replaced pretty often, (Like every ten sides or so my guess)
Or, the stylus would just be grinding up the 78.
As for other designs. All are pretty safe as long as the tip is not worn, or misaligned, or way over the correct downforce.
When worn.. Any style can be bad.
For misalignment, the line contact would be worst. The eliptical wold be 'best' or at least least damaging.
I use a line contact in a unipivot arm.. So obviously I am not very worried.. LOL
John Atkinson played a clean record 600 times and then played it again and said that he could not tell the difference. Clean records and good diamonds will keep your records in good shape if they do not mistrack. The better diamonds track better and extract more information. Go to the vinyl engine and check it out. There is a lengthy exchange on the types of diamonds used, very informative.
just in case one is looking for it
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
I was having trouble logging in and finding it.
:)
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
... all styluses all damage the record differently.
That makes sense.
Interesting read. And even more interesting is the story of how this pamphlet was almost lost. It took someone finding an old copy and putting up online...
nt
I'll be saving that information to a Word document.
Did you happen to see the "Related Answers" at the bottom of the page you linked to? It seems to answer the question in your original post. Someone asked, "Which stylus causes least wear to vinyl", and Shure replied: "To our knowledge, no conclusive scientific research exists."
Link below.
It talks about the stylus as a conical shaped instrument that cannot damage the record. Anyone who has purchased a used LP with tracking damage can testify to the damage that a worn/mistracking stylus can do to the groove walls.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
And we have many types of tips now too, much less tracking force and other factors. Shovels link is good and was written in 2001.
ET
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do suck seed" - Curly Howard 1936
Edits: 09/26/16
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