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I have been using a record clamp (the center weight kind) for 15 years, and I felt this was considered to be best practice, to ensure that the LP is tightly coupled to the platter during playback. I wouldn't use rings, because it isn't worth the possible stylus damage.
But I see a ton of photos of folks playing records sans clamp. I have never done an A/B comparison, by the way, because placing a clamp is so easy, but I'm curious about the experiences of others?
Follow Ups:
A lightweight clamp has become part of my listening chores, I liked it so well.
.
Uncertain as to the model as this was maybe 6 years ago, but his TT had a bare platter (no mat).
It always sounded better with the clamp in use.
I had recently damaged my right wrist (hairline fracture), so did not bother with the clamp when he was not around (therefore the comparison).
I use an 8oz DIY weight on my listed deck (TD125/SME3009) and it always sounds better with the weight (even with flat/heavy 50's stock).
Wanted to try an even lighter weight (4oz, or so) but never got around to it.
The 8oz weight does not tax the TD125's motor/suspension, but I wonder if less is more, and or the same in this case.
I generally use a DIY cork spot mat, but occasionally a DIY wool felt mat.
I use a periphery ring and stainless steel/delrin clamp every time.
I scored a NOS TTW ring weight a few years ago. It weighs about 2.5 lbs. I use it with an old VPI TNT acrylic-lead platter that I would not give up, which is why I cannot use the VPI ring. With the ring I also use a center weight. I would not do it any other way.
Clear performance improvement over the VPI clamp (or nothing).
Adds flywheel.
Faster to use than the VPI clamp.
Solves all problems I have ever had with warps.
I sold a VPI clamp and a record flattening device.
No problem with stylus damage as I put a small O ring on my arm lift platform that forces the stylus down in a precise position every time. I would use this even if I did not have the ring. I could put the stylus down on each disk blindfolded if I had to.
I am almost afraid to answer this question for fear of being howled off the forum. Here goes, it all depends on the record. If the record is sufficiently in contact with the platter that vibrations are damped then don't use one. If the record is warped and you can see daylight underneath it, then clamps or weights are in order. This has bupkis to do with any given turntable design. Clamps, weights (center and/or periphery), or vacuum hold down all achieve the same objective in different ways and all are helpful on less than flat records. It is also true that some warps are such that these devices can make the problem worse. So you need to decide with each record what is best. It is also helpful to have more than one type of weights and clamps.
Good description of the way things are in real life, vs. theory.
This thread reminded me that when I tried a Ringmat (sans any kind of weight/clamp) many years ago I was amazed at how much I liked the result. For some reason, again many years ago I stopped using it or any other clamp or weight.
Now I'm using a weight (approx. 1 pound) on the modded Lenco and nothning on the modded Empire. Why? Heaven only knows.
Probably time to buy another Ringmat :-)
Even though it's one of the silliest looking, most counter-intuitive tweaks I've ever seen.
I have thought that the design of the original ringmat is of some interest in that it actually describes putting a little bit of suspension between the record and bare platter. The suspension is arranged by the strategic spacing of the cork rings on the thick paper substrate, to either side, that causes the weight of the record to flex the paper somewhat. A spring. Paper, cork and....air. IIRC Ringmat also offered a sort of damper piece to go over the record at the spindle pin location. There was a time when I paid some attention to the patent that describes the Ringmat.I suspect (and do think) that it is possible to worsen the conditions of record playback to a considerable degree and still get respectable sound quality.
In reality the best thing to do is arrange for an intimate mating between mat material and record to maximize damping the record from below as its groove is being traced from above. Additionally, record clamps and or pucks can help when they have, in contact with the lable surface of the record, a type of surface/material that damps vibes from the top side.
Screw-down clamps that induce a reverse curve to the record, causing it to make better contact with the mat (or bare platter) surface are a good thing. I do kind of miss the clamping system that was employed on that Teres I used to own. It clamped well enough to straighten out many warped records.
Mostly I am intrigued with vacuum hold down methods. At one time Thorens made a vacuum platter mat. Early 1980's. It would be a perfect accessory for their top of the line TD126III but could also be used on any of their belt driven models. These have always been scarce.
-Steve
Edits: 08/27/16 08/27/16
Clamp (ancient ADC version) for Rubber mats (Garrard/JVC/Thorens): use some home-made 'weights' (arm c/w on 45rpm adaptors) for Linn/Dunlop Systemdek wool/felt mats. Whether the latter are overly beneficial I'm not sure; but the Clamp certainly zaps vinyl resonances/floppyness. Don't see the need/point of hugely heavy/expensive weights.
i prefer a clamp over all including nothing because it satisfies my scientific bent. i just feel that it logically makes more sense to make all playing components to be as stable as possible. a clamp can be lighter than a weight so less mass is better for me. the small orsonic clamp was only $50 but is now $90. my lightest one is a plannamaxx bur requires greater strength than my arthritic fingers can manage most of the time.
a weight is preferable to no downward pressure on the center of the disc but please don't call a weight a clamp, which it isn't. i would rather prevent a chance for resonance than to discover one.
...regards...tr
tr, I totally agree with the last sentence in your post.
I truly wish that folks would learn the difference between a record clamp and a record weight. Proper nomenclature could save us some time when going through a days worth of threads.
It can be a PITA when someone starts a thread using the wrong descriptor in the title. A clamp is a clamp, a weight is a weight. Period.
If someone claims to be an "audiophile" they really should know the difference.
much more of the same applies to one who would produce a weight and call it a clamp.
...regards...tr
It depends on what you're clamping to whether its beneficial, my Rock was designed with a screw down clamp and sounds best with it in place, a Linn with its felt mat wouldn't benefit.
Suck it and see (or hear in this case).
When playing warped records but I simply stopped buying new records. : )
I always use the center weight and periphery clamps....never had any problems with either.
I would expect issues of clamp/mat compatibility. I use a lightweight clamp with my AR-XA, and a mat I made from roofing material. They seem to work well together.
I am more conscientious using the clamp with thin pressings. The heavier stuff seems to take care of itself.
Merely Astounded.. that this Rascal, albeit claiming to using a Clamp for 15 years! has now resorted to asking here!? on what "other peoples" opinions are ??
When 10 mins in the comfort of his own room could answer the question.
Opus 33 1/3
nt
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
I said NT
Are all ways to battle vibrations that can ruin stable imaging on playback. It has been demonstrated by people who know a hell of a lot more than I do about this subject and explained many, many times.
Heavy weight pressings are another way to tackle the same problem. In short there are surface vibrations on the LP that make their way to the stylus/cantilever and screws up the reproduction. The ideal LP playback would be to have the stylus pick up nothing but the information in the grooves. It is a physical playback medium and can suffer from anything that gets to the stylus, where-ever that something starts.
We all battle environment issues with isolation platforms, heavy weight plinths, sorbothane feet, etc, etc ,etc. All of that stuff is to isolate the playback from environmental feedback. Its a real problem and you can realize improvements from clamps, rings and/or vacuum hold down.
How audible it is, is another matter. If its a rotten pressing, forget the clamps or whatever. If its a stellar pressing with lots of low level details, its probably worth the effort.
Its like everything else in this hobby. The closer you get your rig to playback nirvana, the more things we find to muck it all up.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
I always use a clamp on my Sota Millennia because it came with a clamp and it helps to seal the label area so the vacuum hold-down can more easily get started. It also looks more impressive than without at clamp.
I always use a clamp with my Technics SL-1200 because I saw this particular clamp at Ribfest one year and I liked the way it looked. It has 16 facets that sparkle as it spins making the platter look like it's spinning at a much higher speed than 33 rpm.
Best regards,
John Elison
I'm thinking around 420 grams... ;)
Mine are spindle clamps, not weights. The polished aluminum TT super clamp on my SL-1200 weighs 154-grams and my Sota reflex clamp weighs 220-grams.
Thanks. I was actually referring to how it looked and intimating 420 grams.... 420. Shiny sparkles. Get it?
> 420 grams.... 420. Shiny sparkles. Get it?
No! Sorry!
Just Google 420 and all will become clear. ;-)
On my set up, difference is minimal. I think that the clamp leads to a more controlled, less open sound, whatever that means. With my old Shure V15VxMR. However, got a new cart. Still breaking in.
One other condition, I use a clamp if I really MUST listen to a warped record.
I've tried various weights on several tables between mine and several of my friends'. The results vary in degrees between tables, but are fairly consistent. Some clamps bring out more details, focus; some gives more warmth and texture to the midrange; and some just completely suck the bass out.
FrankC
Surprised You've ..not.. played an LP with Clamp, then immediately Without Clamp??
Try it ? you are in a perfect position to identify a difference.. if any.
Bare got it right. It's the naked truth.
Clamping, using any of the many modalities available, is ultimately a matter of taste, and one's preference may even vary from LP to LP. You can buy a decent clamp for reasonable bucks; I do not advise relying upon "public" opinion to make this choice. (Stay away from the $3500 Durand weight, until you've made up your mind pro or con, however. That one would be tough to unload if you decide to be a no-clamper.)
I used to eschew the use of a clamp. Now I am religious about using one. But I would not bother with a peripheral ring, even though it might be beneficial in some cases, because of the aggravation involved, and I did not care for the effect of vacuum hold-down when once I owned a SOTA Star Sapphire with that feature. But that's just me. Ignore me, and decide for yourself.
The Rap on Clamps that I heard was that they transmit vibration from the Spindle/Motor through the Record to the Stylus.
I don't think my TT motor would like the extra weight.
Many TT's are designed W/Clamp, I suspect.
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