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It wasn't bad before, but since I'm able to play records again, I'm having problems with my platter bouncing, or more like shuddering, during playback. This causes the cartridge to bounce with it and skip across the record. It never used to do this. My music today was not loud at all, so it can't be from the speakers. And I put the lid down and walked away from the table, and it still was doing it. What is causing this? I was shown some ideas to help reduce vibration on this table, which I may implement. But I'm not sure they will help much. I was shown a base board for better damping, a better platter matt, and use of possibly some cones on the bottom. I don't know where the platter is picking up the vibrations, but it almost seems like its coming from the table itself.
Follow Ups:
I know someone who's 17D3 stylus came off the cantilever, just check with a magnifying glass your stylus is still there.
What's the history of the deck, could it have been damaged, when was the last service?
If I put a Linn or similar suspended deck on my rack it will jump when I walk away from it due to the construction of my floor. A friend uses one on a mana table with no such problem, he also has a 17D3 in an ittok, maybe a wall shelf would cure it if its footfall related.
I took the turntable in to the stereo shop I got the cartridge from. He will look at it and work on it for a bit.
I took the table in last weekend and he looked at it today. This is what he said-"I think we have pinned down the major problem with your turntable.
The Linn Ittok arm has severe anti-skating issues, I think you mentioned you had it serviced but it is still way out on calibration compared to my Linn Ittok in the store.
If the arm is zeroed (no weight) and the anti-skate is set to zero, it still skates across the table as if it were set to 2 or more.
Which means at the setting of 2 it was probably around 4 -5 or more, which would have caused the problems you were experiencing."
He was suggesting 3 options. Live with it at zero, get it fixed by Linn, or sell the table and get something else. I don't want to just live with this issue, so option 1 is out. Getting it fixed by Linn isn't promising either, since it was Linn that repaired the tonearm the first time, and they still didn't get it right. And option 3 isn't too popular either, since I'd never recoupe the money I spent on this table to begin with. Having to sell it as a defective table at a huge loss of funds.
I'm kind of PO'd about this, since my used warranty has lapsed on this thing and I'd have to fork out big bucks to get this thing into shape. And the problem is who would I send it to without damage or expense?
What do you guys think?
The Ittok has been out of production for quite a while now, so not sure where any warranty would come from (except if the arm were repaired).
The antiskate is a thin cord tied to a spring and tensioned around the knob. If you're brave, you can check it out yourself. If not, you could check with Audio Origami (google it) who specialize in Linn arm repairs for advice or estimates. Not sure if Linn will even repair the Ittoks anymore. It's worth getting the ittok bearings checked too, as they can be on the delicate side.
If fixed, it's a decent arm, and will work fine with the 17d3 cart - I've heard the combination before.
If that doesn't work, keep the table and grab a more modern akito arm, which will match the ittok performance.
but some little modification will need to be done to that brace in the corner behind the tonearm board. I had a Expressimo Audio Modified Rega RB250 put on my Linn LP12 at the time. It performed way better than the Akito arm I had on it.
So that may be an option.
I am curious and would like to know for my education.
I think that's what is called "PRaT".
Just had my PS redone, purchased a new cart, still breaking in.
Are you sure you haven't repositioned table to allow up and down physical motion? The table sounds like it's moving so that the spring loaded suspension is moving.
My table is very old although in good shape and with pretty good aesthetics. It started very slow, then did not keep speed. I had it repaired 2 yrs ago. Recently, it would start, just dead. My expert advice and repair brought me a table which starts kind of slow and has some mild buzzing. Maybe your PS is gone, starting and slowing.
I was having the same kind of thought. The power supply, although I don't think the OP told us which one he has, could be causing the motor to jerk on the belt, and that jerking could manifest via the suspension. The old Valhalla supplies are quite old by now and I've read plenty of stories about guys with dead Valhalla power supplies looking to get them fixed. I had an issue with mine years ago before I got my Lingo.
https://youtu.be/sx_SZ2XNq_o
See the above video. Stereo is on a wooden custom rack 4 or so feet tall. Near the wall. Power supply is the Mose. Cart is the 17D3. I never had issues with a Thorens 147 on this rack. Same type of suspension.
After watching the video I agree with Mr. Elison. The Ittok and Ekos both generally are happier with carts in the 9gm range, however, the 5.5gm of the 17D3 is within the happy-range of both. I think John may well be onto it with his suggestion of deteriorated cart suspension.
Guys. My 17D3 cart is brand new. Its had less then 5 hours play on it.
Okay! The suspension is not worn out, but that doesn't mean there's not a compliance mismatch. It appeared to me that the record warps were exciting the arm/cartridge resonance several times throughout your video. Therefore, it might be a good idea to try a different cartridge just to see if that eliminates the problem.
Good luck,
John Elison
The tonearm originally had a Grado Black on it with no issues.
It sounds to me like you have an arm/cartridge mismatch with the 17D3. If you have a reasonably flat test record with tracks for measure arm/cartridge resonance frequency you might check to see if it's too high or too low. Normally you want the arm/cartridge resonance frequency to be greater than 8-Hz but less than 13-Hz with 10-Hz being optimum. However, if it falls outside of that range, it is likely a major factor in causing the problem you are experiencing.
If the arm/cartridge resonance is too high you can add mass to the headshell to lower it. However, if it's too low you can't do much about it except to replace the cartridge with one having similar mass but lower compliance, which will raise the resonance frequency. In other words, your cartridge compliance is too high if the resonance frequency is too low.
Additionally, some cartridges have greater cantilever damping than others. I suspect the 17D3 might have very little cantilever damping. On the other hand, Grado cartridges often have a reputation for too little cantilever damping so I'm surprised you didn't have problems with your Grado. Perhaps its compliance and mass were a good match for your tonearm. Anyway, it sounds to me like you have an arm/cartridge mismatch with the 17D3.
I hope you figure out how to resolve your problem.
Good luck,
John Elison
Interesting since many people state they've used Dynavector carts on the Linn table and found them to be a good match. My arm is the Ittok 2.
You could very well be right, but it is so easy to check with a test record, why not rule it out.
Dave
Okay, I am officially out of ideas. It's not a failing Valhalla and not worn cart suspension. I have to admit I'm stumped.
I have a good friend that at one time was a Linn dealer and he's been my go-to guy for anything related to my LP12 for years now. I'll ring him up and direct him to your video and see if he's got any ideas. If he turns up anything I'll PM you.
Mike
Try another cartridge ? Even as only an Experiment.
That would at least narrow the error source possibilities
If the alternate cart doesn't do similar dancing.. then yer home free.
If not, then it's Forensics on the Arm time.
Try another cartridge ? Even as only an Experiment.
That would at least narrow the error source possibilities
that's the first thing I'd do before anything. It looks to be like the motor is passing on too much vibration to the table. Your deck definitely need adjusting/tweaking.
Also, do you have another cartridge you can try on? It's possible that cart's suspension is going.
to happen. It starts to wiggle just after the warp and then starts to stop but then again that warp comes around and it starts again.
This is why I asked the OP if it happened on warped record only or on almost perfect records too.
Can anything be done to help that? Most records have some warp to it to some degree and I cannot play them like this.
I agree with Cougar that the problem is initiated by the warped record. The platter appears to be spinning with good stability. However, the arm/cartridge resonance is becoming excited by the record warps, which indicates the resonance frequency is too low. This can be resolved only by installing a different cartridge with lower compliance in order to raise the arm/cartridge resonance frequency. Silicone fluid tonearm damping would also help the situation.
I wonder if your 17D3's cantilever suspension is wearing out and becoming more compliant, which would lower the arm/cartridge resonance frequency. At any rate, the platter seems to be spinning smoothly while the warped LP is causing the tonearm to bounce and excite the arm/cartridge resonance. I have a feeling the cantilever suspension on your 17D3 might be wearing out and becoming more compliant.
Good luck,
John Elison
Some use record flatteners to reduce them. Not all warps are like that one in the video.
I'm just interested if it's happen with flat records too.
and it takes a lot for it to bounce around crazy like that. I have bounced the platter slightly and it would track flawlessly.There are a lot of things you left out.
1. What type of floor do you have?
2. What type of shelf is it sitting on?
3. Have you changed anything since it last worked properly?
4. How is the armboard to plinth level?
5. Is this happening only when you walk away or towards the table?
6. Is the table leveled properly?
7. What type of arm/cartridge do you have on the table?
8. Is this only happening on warped records or does it do on record that are near perfect?
9. Is the table close to the speaker or sub?
10 Are you actually seeing the platter start to bounce? Because the Tonearm and platter should be bouncing together at the same rate.
11. Is the cantilever on the cartridge ok?
12. Have you accidently dropped the inner platter down onto the Thrust plate or moved this table with the Platter still on it?
13. Have you done anything to the table, I mean anything since you last used it?Until we have specific information, it will be hard for us to determine what has changed since it last worked properly and what may be the cause is. I would be very interested on what the answers to the questions would be.
Edits: 08/22/16 08/22/16
Does it happen when nobody is walking and at a low level of volume? That would eliminate footfall and feedback problems if it does.
People talk about the magic of the Linn suspension. If the cable is dressed so that it has a nice, neutral loop and the platter is level, you are all set.
Folks think that turning the nuts from the bottom "increases the tension" of the springs, but this is an optical illusion. The only downward force is the weight of the floating subchassis, platter, and tonearm, and fiddling with the nuts just pushes upward on the spring of that position, which in turn raises the subchassis at that location. It's far from magic and does not need a "Linn Guru".
AS everyone has correctly said your suspension is not correctly set. I will try to be a bit more specific.First check the obvious tell tales for a mis-set Linn suspension. The arm board should have the same gap between it and the plinth all around. The armboard surface should also be level with the top the plinth at all points. The former is adjusted by rotating each of the rubber domes at the top of each spring and the latter by adjusting the nut at the bottom of each spring. To do this you will need to remove the base and find a way of working on the turntable while it is still perfectly horizontal.
Although the above adjustments are necessary to get the turntable to function correctly even if they are not perfectly set you should'nt get the problem you suffer from. This seems to me to be another aspect of setting the suspension which is the dressing of the arm cable. This should be anchored to the bottom of one of the cross member anchor points using a plastic "P" clip. A little slack should be allowed between the arm pillar and the clip so as to allow movement. The clip needs to be very firmly tightened. I suspect that your's is not tight enough and the arm cable has been pulled slightly through it so as to tighten the slack and to allow it to pull against the free bounce of the suspension.
Full instructions on setting up the Linn can be found on the Vinyl Engine website if you are registered there.
I also note your remark about closing the lid. The lid on the LP12 is not supposed to be used when playing records. This is why it is designed with the upper part of the hinges made so that they just lift out of the lower part attached to the plinth. The sound is far better with the lid off and it is only meant for protection when not in use.
Edits: 08/22/16
Your suspension is out of whack or your tonearm resonance is too low, it not a good thing on a suspended table.
:)
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
Tonearm is a stock Ittok 2. So not the problem there. It worked fine before. He did adjust the suspension not long ago, so maybe it needs fine tuning?
so it must be the suspension...search the intewebs for the protocols to check if yours is out of whack :)....just because it was adjusted recently does not mean it is right. The Linn is a bitch when it is not adjusted properly :) One reason i do not own one :)....
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
I would also ask what furniture/rack the table is sited on.
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