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I am interested in a step up transformer recommendation for the Denon DL103R. The friend's system this is going in tends toward the bright and forward, so if there is a step up device that would bring out warmth, smoothness, and fullness, that is what I want. Definitely want to avoid anything bright and detailed. Under $1000, please. Want to spend as little as possible if possible. Thanks!
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As an alternative to an SUT, you could get a phonoclone 3 phono preamp. It is a diy MC only phono preamp voiced using the Denon. I put one together for about $200. It's a good sounding unit, although it is neutral (usually a plus!).
Shure or other microphone step-ups. Forget the impedances and hook-up, but I have some that work great with a Stanton/Pickering low impedance moving magnet cartridge. Some types should still be found at good prices. David
I use these, and I really like them.
How do you set it up for the Denon DL-103R?
Find some 1/16 UTC MC transformers. They are a perfect match for the 103r and are exactly what you are looking for.
Edits: 03/18/20
I already posted my recommendation in budget sut for dl103 thread and which is a basic Hashimoto transformer. There are above top Jensen , Cinemag (which are just so so in my opinion ) Cotter MKII silver trans, basic Audio Notes and and Lundahl trannies . They are rather lush and spacious sounding if you look on shift of tonal qualities compared to neutral. Excellent transformers and fairly reasonable price. I think it's an all around best buy in MC transformer category .I don't know where the love for Cinemags comes from . They are cheap but not that cheap and 1331/1254 are really not worth their price IMHO. Boring ,Hi-fishy sounding and taste like a cheap whisky..if you know what I mean ;)
OH and yes you do need the best SUT you can afford
Edits: 08/15/16
... to make my system sounds great to me!
Try Altec 4095 if you only need 10:1 gain. I have tried it with Martin Logan and Threshold amp before and it is smooth without any loss in detail.
Also, I found UTC A-39 configured at 1:13 to sound similar to the 4095. It can be had on Ebay for like $70 a pair when I was looking for mine.
Sorry, I checked Ebay for the A-39, nothing available. I still recommend the Altec.
There is no need for expensive SUT's to make one system sound fabulous, IME.
Edits: 08/15/16
NT
> Want to spend as little as possible if possible. Thanks!
The Parks Audio Budgie "CineMag" SUT is one of the least expensive at $339. Parks Audio makes another CineMag SUT that is more detailed and transparent called the Budgie "CM1254" SUT costing $498. I have no idea whether either of these would meet your sonic requirements, though. SUTs often sound differently based on the equipment with which they are used.
Personally, I think the Bob's Devices Cinemag 1131 is one of the very best SUTs regardless of price. However, it's not cheap at $1195. This is the one I use with my new VTA PH16 phono stage.
Good luck,
John Elison
Read the post just below this one about the Parks Audio SUT
You might want to begin by realizing that the 103r, while faithfully reproducing tone and timbre, has less top end energy than some others.
High quality transformers like the Cinemags are quite neutral; the 3440AH in my system introduces little or no color to the music. There are more expensive models and those from other manufactureres said to be even more neutral. K&K Audio comes to mind if you don't want to spend a couple of hours with a drill and soldering iron. Or spend $1200 for less than $300 bucks worth of parts.
Denon AU-320 is the natural candidate. Sweet yet detailed; but very endearing. Highly recommended and they only run $300. A big bonus is the two tonearm switching abilities with this device.Beyer made some fine trannies that are often listed on the bay as 1:15 or 1:20 step-up units; also warm and smooth. On ebay, they run about $50-$75 a pair but require installing in a box with RCA receptacles and/or output cables.
Ortofon STM-72 and STM-83 inline "astatic mu-metal, double screened" stereo transformer devices run about $100-150 and will also satisfy your/his needs.
Lots of money left for more tubes or another cartridge or two...
Edits: 08/15/16
"Sweet and detailed"? Did you read my original post? I want dark, murky and rich.
I am only trying to help, here. You can be a bit rough...You mentioned warm, smooth and full; not dark, murky and rich in your original post. My recommendations still stand ready to satisfy...
The Denon AU-320 seems the most natural choice for your specific needs...
Thanks. Do you believe the AU 320 is appropriate for the DL103R given it's differences from the standard DL103?
It is always possible to spend as little as possible.
The Auditorium 23 is specifically built to handle the Denon.No, I don't know anything about it. You might try reading the Stereophile review.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
Edits: 08/14/16
The Auditorium 23 SUT for the Denon cartridge is specifically for the standard 103, not the 103R, which has a completely different output impedance.
"The Auditorium 23 SUT for the Denon cartridge is specifically for the standard 103, not the 103R, which has a completely different output impedance."
Please elaborate :-)
I have both a standard 103 and a 103R. I use an Auditorium 23 SUT, and the Auditorium 23 distributor informed me that this SUT is fully compatible with either cartridge.
The literature that came with my 103 specifies an electrical impedance of 40 ohms +/-20%(1kHz) while the literature that Denon included with my 103R specifies an electrical impedance of 100 ohms min. (40 ohms when using a transformer).
Can you explain why you claim that my Auditorium 23 SUT is compatible with my standard 103 but at the same time not compatible with my 103R?
This is a serious inquiry from someone that doesn't quite understand your statement and is not intended to start an argument or question your veracity.
Please point me to a link if you don't have the time for a full explanation. I would really appreciate it if you could help me to understand this :-)
Auditorium 23 makes two different versions of the standard SUT, one for SPU cartridges or others that have a low impedance and the Denon version for the 103 or cartridges with a high impedance, like the EMT TSD-15. The Denon 103R does not have a high impedance and therefore won't work as intended when using the A23 that's made for the 103. I've as I been told by dealer and by the A23 distributor that is made for the standard 103, not the 103R version.
There is no reason why a SUT that is optimized for a DL103 should not work for a DL103R.
The DL-103 and DL-103R have different electrical parameters. The standard DL-103 has DC coil resistance of 40-ohms with a rated output of 0.3-mV whereas the DL-103R has DC coil resistance of 14-ohms with a rated output of 0.25-mV. Don't you think this would make a difference regarding step-up transformer optimization? If not, what do you mean by the term "optimized" relative to step-up transformers and cartridges?
Thanks,
John Elison
Have you read the links yet John ?
Edits: 08/26/16
Yes, thanks!
If you change the word "optimized" to for example "highly suitable",
this link can possibly give you an explanation*.*I have no affiliation whatsoever to Rothwell Audio
Edit:Here is one more link:http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/mc_step-up_transformers_explai.html
Edits: 08/23/16
Thank you, I appreciate your answer :-)
I have personally used both the 103 and 103R and experimented with different step up ratios to determine what sounds best. 1:20 is the best sounding ratio for the 103 and 1:40 is the best sounding ratio for the 103R. These ratios were determined from listening test and not from mathematical computations. If you use 1:20 with the 103R, it will sound too bright. If you use 1:40 with the 103, it will sound muddy and flat.
I believe that "Garth" advocated using Denon 103 cartridges with the Cinemag 3440A on its highest setting of 37dB which cut the output down but, worked very well.
.
"If people don't want to come, nothing will stop them" - Sol Hurok
See the post I just made here.
So are you saying that your device meets my sonic criteria or is this just a general recommendation? I'm looking for specific qualities, of which none are mentioned in your post.
Only the poorest of transformers are heavily rolled off on the top and bottom. The interaction of a transformer with your cartridge should be that the output impedance of the 103R should be 10% roughly of the input impedance of the transformer. The input impedance of the transformer can be altered by adding resistors in parallel to the transformer output or input. Adjusting the added resistance can alter the sound of the cartridge towards brightness or dullness. The warmth descriptor etc. is really just describing various freq imbalances that are induced by altering the resistance in parallel with the transformer.
.
So the Cine Mags are quite neutral. I use it with an EAR 836P tube phono pre. The sound is warm and rich, what I would expect from the EAR.
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