|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
73.150.108.17
In Reply to: RE: REVIEW: VPI Industries Prime Turntables posted by John Elison on November 20, 2015 at 20:56:31
What you might try doing is loosen the arm base mounting screws, the arm base has quite a bit a free motion before tightening down and we set it for 258 +/- 1 mm. It could have been moved in shipping. Having seen the adjustment range of the arm base I think you can get to where you want to be or much closer than now. While I doubt you will hear a difference you will feel better.
Making the Avenger with multiple arms and rotating arm boards has shown me the actual distance is less critical then you knowing what it is and compensating for it. You can print out arc protractors for any spindle to pivot distance and get your alignment perfect that way.
I know I make Fremer and probably John crazy when I say these things but I hear a much greater difference getting azimuth, SRA, and VTF spot on then the overall lateral alignment. I can play with the overhang and spindle to pivot distance all day and hear almost no difference as long as I am relatively close. You're just moving where the null points are and where you like your distortion to set in and how much, a no win game. Then again I don't use anti-skate which makes other people crazy!!
BTW, if you play a lot of classical the Stevensen method sounds the best!!!
Enjoy your Prime and play music, not math.
HW
Follow Ups:
I should have read your post yesterday. Yesterday I played with tracking using an Accu-Trac protractor. First I checked to see how far off my cartridge was as it was set with a 258 mm protractor. A very small amount, perhaps the thickness of the line outside the arc on the inner part. Two hours later it was spot on. If that much difference matters I can't hear it. Then I redid the alignment using the Stevenson method because that is what I used for years and because it was a rainy day anyway. The Stevenson method sounds better on the inner most part of the record where the grand finale on many classical pieces is found. Otherwise, for jazz and classical the Baerwald sounds a wee bit better. Not a big deal either way. I agree with you about azimuth and VTF as being more important. Personally, I think a bigger difference than any of this is getting the speed stable with either an SDS or the Phoenix Engineering stuff. That is my opinion anyway and I am sticking with it.
You are spot on and it is about time for customers to understand this is not a on off game, there are a million ways to mount a cartridge correctly.
I love Tony Cordesman's comments to me years ago about alignment,"Since the hole is not in the center which side are you aligning for!!!"
> You can print out arc protractors for any spindle to pivot distance and get your alignment perfect that way.> I know I make Fremer and probably John crazy when I say these things...
Tonearm effective length and pivot-to-spindle distance must be matched to each other in order to achieve proper alignment. When you increase pivot-to-spindle mounting distance you also need to increase tonearm effective length. The headshell slots will allow for only small errors in pivot-to-spindle distance because their main purpose is to accommodate cartridges with different stylus-to-mounting-hole dimensions not gross errors in pivot-to-spindle distance. Whether or not you can hear the increased distortion resulting from cartridge misalignment does not alter the facts regarding tonearm alignment geometry.
I think your turntables represent an excellent value in today's marketplace, especially the new Prime. Two of my friends just bought the Prime and it sounds very good to me.
Best regards,
John Elison
Edits: 11/22/15
The effective tonearm length was increased using the slots, with much room to spare. A protractor for the actual distance was used. All is well.
"..if you play a lot of classical the Stevensen method sounds the best!!!"
Wow, HW; can you elaborate? Classical is about all I listen to.
Forget about 'Çlassical Music'. If you listen to records of any genre and you don't want to suffer the vagaries of alignments and anti-skate, you move to the best linear tracking arm you can afford and align the cartridge as closely as you can to radial tracking. That is also not perfect and carries its own set of compromises but with a great linear tracker and accurate alignment to the radius of the record it disposes of a raft of troubling problems that only arise with the pivoting arm.
Edits: 07/31/16
I don't mean to put words in HW's mouth, but in the event he doesn't reply, I'll take a stab at your question.
In a lot of classical music, the loudest, most complex passages occur at the end of a composition. These are the most demanding in terms of the stylus tracking the grooves. This means these complex, demanding passages occur in the innermost grooves of an LP side. The Stevenson alignment, if I understand it correctly, places the inner null point (which is one of the points of the least distortion) closer to the innermost grooves of an LP side. Hence, you get lower distortion in the areas where the most complex music occurs.
I hope this is decently close, but if not, perhaps someone (HW if possible) will elaborate.
-Bob
Many pieces have their loudest parts within a movement, and not toward the beginning or end.
Many do. But I would say that MOST classical works are more likely to have loud passages at the end. Maybe not THE very loudest passages, but certainly loud ones. Of course, as with all generalizations, this is not universally true. If you Google "Stevenson alignment classical music" you will see that this theory is not mine alone, for instance at the link below. Again, I have no idea whether or not this is why HW made his statement, but I do think it stands up to reason.
-Bob
Now I wonder if Stevensen wrote a paper on the subject....
Hi Steve,
Did you check the Vinyl FAQ?
... Peter Ledermann and you must have had interesting conversations when he came up with the original "VPI Zephyr" (I have one, on a 10.5i).
Edits: 11/21/15
We have had a few, he is very much into the engineering side while I on the other hand have decided that like rich women's faces, what a million years of evolution gave you is only a recommendation.
HW
Interesting comment about evolution and "rich women's faces." I'm still trying to figure it out.
rich women's faces frequently attempt to defy evolution and natural, graceful aging through
the help of that financial richness and (usually a not very capable) plastic surgeon.
In other words, tweaking.
There are exceptions as with most things in this wonderful life.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks. I wonder how long it would have taken me to figure that out.
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: