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I recently placed a pre order with Acoustic Sounds for Hank Mobley "Workout" (33 rpm) and a few days ago I received this email:
"I regret to inform you that AMMJ 84080 - Hank Mobley/ Workout has been canceled for release by the label and is no longer available for purchase. This title has been removed from your order. There were no charges made for this title."
2 days ago I went directly to Music Matters site and placed an order for the title. Yesterday I received and email with the tracking number.
I've bought quite a few MM reissues and have not had any issues.
Follow Ups:
That is a pretty popular re-issue. Perhaps there was an error made at Acoustic Sounds? I bought my copy at Music Direct. It appears that Music Matters has raised their prices, now up to $39.99 per disc. I placed an order last night for almost $600 and not one of them a Music Matters product because of it. In fact I will not pay that price, there is no reason to do so.
where else can one get a copy that is as good for cheaper? The originals are sky-high and often in terrible shape and seem to be only going higher, the other option is to buy the 75th anniversary issues that are not that great from what I have been told...
The Music Matters 75ths are better than the Blue Note label's own 75ths, but the difference is not great and perhaps not even detectable at all on some equipment. Also the BN 75ths that I have were mastered by Bernie Grundman, and yes they are digital masters, but hoo boy he does a good job. As you know these are half the price. I also have some old, old, as in original BN that I bought when they were current and would have to say the new 75ths are at least as good as the originals that I have been able to compare. Which is another way of conceding that the Music Matters stuff is really very good. I also buy other audiophile vinyl, Analogue Productions, MoFi, Speaker's Corner and the like that are all good too. I also buy a lot from Mosaic. I have some Nicki Parrott records from Japan, and can't remember the label but Cecile McLorin Salvant has two double albums out of absolutely impeccable quality. Columia/Sony has release so great re-issues of Miles, Bennett, Basie, Brubeck, and Sinatra. These come immediately to mind.
Not in my experience. Purchased twice - from ED and AS, in both cases I received many off-centered and warped records. MM people can't even properly handle the records. Ridiculous.
I have eleven of them. Only one was slightly warped and it was promptly replaced. With the replacement, all eleven look perfect and play beautifully.
Sorry your luck was bad. Besides, the girl in the photo had stopped what she was doing to pose and probably shifted the record around. I don't think I would make purchasing decisions based on that photo.
when you say "75ths" are you speaking of BN 75ths or MM 75ths in comparison with the originals? And yes, I have heard the Mosaic sets are very good as well, correct?
Sorry, it is confusing. I have compared old original BN, with BN 75ths, and with MM 75ths. The BN 75ths are generally on par or very close to the originals, the MM 75ths are better yet. Mosaic vinyl is 130 gram, pressed by QRP if memory serves and always sound excellent although you have to be careful with your expectations with some of their material. Tonight I have been listening to some of Mosaic's "Complete Commodore Jazz Recordings." A lot of these were lifted off of 78s and recorded to digital tape. Some are quite good for what they are, and the music is all top shelf, but these are not audiophile recordings. These are archivist, complete-ist, old small groups from the big bands, recorded in the 1930s and 1940s. Not everyone's cuppa. But they do some things that are unbeatable. For example I am staring at a set "Ella & Duke at the Cote D'Azur" that is to die for. They do a fair number of Blue Note things too, that are as good as it gets. I have never had a warped Mosaic either. Their price is about $30 per disc.
Unlikely QRP pressed Mosaics. Mosaics have been around for many years, QRP is relatively new. Probably RTI.
I think you are right. RTI lists Mosaic as a customer on their website. RTI's customer list is a long and impressive one, including Music Matters, about whom this thread originated.
and knowing the quality both the packaging and pressing, I wondered how could they make any money.
I've tried a few 75th anniversary Don Was vinyl based on the feedback here ( someone said there's very little difference between the Music Matters reissues )
Two of the Don Was Blue Note reissues I purchased were warped, noisy, poor thin packaging and poor digital printing. The title I purchased were remastered by Bernie Grundman ( I don't know why they had to remaster form Ron Mcmaster's digital remaster which I think has a pretty good balance. ) but there are two other remastering engineers involved depending on the title. ( Alan Yoshida from JVC Japan and unknown engineers from Capitol studio, IIRC )
I think these new Don Was Blue Note pressings are great for someone who's just getting into jazz but they don' have anywhere near a polish and quality of Music Matters.
Looks like Acoustic Sound's Analogue Production jazz titles are also going up next year from 30 to 35$ for 33 RPM titles. ( which the sound quality and packaging also are pale in comparison, but not as bad as Don Was Blue Noe, to Music Matters )
so it appears that the MM re the Blue Notes to buy, not the AP versions, correct? I only bought one Was one, labels were wrong but the music was correct, no issues with the pressing but I though at $30 it was worth it to just go get the best and not do any half measures. I have some early Liberty RVG pressings that are just flat out amazing sounding and would want to stay more along the sounds of those
MSRP is 20$USD.I only have one overlapping title with AP45 Blue note which is the Maiden Voyage and prefer MM33's balance. Not to mention much better packaging.
But I have not ABed other MM45 and AP45. ( personally I can't deal with 45s )
My positive user experience with MM titles are mostly with their 33 offerings.
I also have a bunch of Classic Records reissues done by Grundmann and prefer MM's balance as I hear the latter more dynamic and quieter. I haven't had much opportunity to listen to the original pressing except a few times when I have heard the original 'something else' and Miles' Kind of Blue (Columbia original pressing ) at my dealer, altho, they had a slight noise under, those vintage original records had an ability to create a sense of performers being in the room a minute a needle hit the record. Then I understood why collectors want those originals. And to my ears the MM 33 gives the same sort of in-room sound.
I have many AP Prestige mono reissues and whilst they are much better than Don Was 18 bucks specials, the dynamics ( particularly micro ) and noise floor could be improved upon. That said, not all Prestige titles had Van Gelder as an engineer cuz, they sound very different from Blue Note releases.
Edits: 11/20/15 11/20/15
IMO, soundwise the MM reissues are the best. I'm talking about the 33s. I just wish they train their pressing operators.
IIRC,RTI does their pressing. So I am not sure how much influence they have when their supplier screw up. I had one defective LP out of dozens where they just sent a replacement pronto.
I only have one MM45s ( Kenny Drew 'Undercurrent') which I also prefer their 33rpm version. In fact I purchased their 33 vinyl based on a claim a dude from Audio Quest made on this board to see if he's on the level. 'our new 33s are better than their previous 45s'
He was right. At least on 'Undercurrent' I was able to compare side by side. I haven't bought any other MM45s as I found constant flipping ruin my listening experience.
Honestly speaking I don't really care who does the pressing. If MMs name is on the
LP, then generally they are responsible for the quality, otherwise responsible party is whoever the seller is. I got 9 defective titles out of 13 from ED, and 4 defectives out of 10 from AS. I didn't lose anything financially, but it wasn't a good experience.
and I thought I was the only ones with bad luck with vinyl.Have you noticed, tho the quality of new pressing has gone down hill a last couple of years?
So I assumed you returned most of MM pressing. What did you end up getting instead?
I suppose you can still get a few Classical Records reissues.Did you have a better luck with Don Was Blue Note?
Edits: 11/21/15
> > Have you noticed, tho the quality of new pressing has gone down hill a last couple of years? < <
Oh yeah, no question about that! Somebody has to take responsibility for this situation. I mean, really what country are we living in? These days I do my vinyl shopping mostly at the local Newbury Comics stores (it's a New England chain), because it's easy to return or exchange the defective records. Salespeople always complain about the overall high percentage of returns for these vinyls.
I personally haven't had much problem from RTI pressed MM33s but recently they sent out the announcement in the email.
Music Matters is also very happy to announce important improvements that our close partners at RTI have recently implemented, which will further improve the product we will be providing for your listening pleasure. RTI has recently sourced a vastly improved vinyl formulation, with more lubricants for more silent playing surfaces. The new vinyl will also have improved anti-static properties, further contributing to an even lower playback noise floor.
To take greatest advantage of the improved raw vinyl material, RTI has invested in a new state of the art boiler and temperature control system, which will insure that the vinyl is heated to the most exacting standards required for even flow of the formula while on the press.
As for the off centre hole is truly annoying. I see that a lot on all vinyl past and present. The thing is vinyl pressing isn't exactly exacting. This is part of the reasons CDs took over as it is less problematic. ( altho, the othter day I had my first off center hole CD ) :0
If they fix those problems, but still I will believe it when I see it :)
Just watch videos of how records are made and you can truly see it's more of an art than a science. Although, there's no doubt in my mind that with significant financial investment, they could automate many steps that are now done by hand. There are so many variables in pressing a record that it's difficult to be 100% consistent, though some plants do much better than others.
I was under the impression that JASRAC (as seen on many records from Japan) establish an industrial standard and quality control criteria for vinyl pressing. Couldn't the rest of the world achieve the same?
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
it's kind of sad that US used to be able to make decent records. A certification to regulate a lack of QC just adds to the operational cost. I think the problem might be overworked aging equipment ( many plants are still using the same pressing from the past ), lack of good vinyl ( EPA issues ) and operator knowledge and their general carelessness.
IIRC, all records manufactured in Japan has JIS mark ( Japan Industry Standard ). Maybe they are manufactured to more exact standard but no guarantee of their superior sound when it comes to imported titles because usually the original master never leaves the country of origin so they end up using a copy. I found often Japanese imports of American jazz title sound flaccid compared to the US pressings. ( I see why Japanese collector pay high dollars for the US pressings )
Sounds about right.
However, for those of us that don't have top dollar, Japanese pressings are far from the worst available!
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
There must be something else at work, however as my recent experience of Sony Glenn Gould reissue vs. Erato Alexadre Tharaud new pressing both done at the same MPO France yet the quality difference is far and apart.
So apparently the MPO is capable of producing one of the nicest sounding vinyl. At least some of the time. I am sill puzzled why such a huge gap between the excellence and mediocre. ( FWIW, my replacement Erato LP was noisy, too but at least his time it was flat and no damage )
I miss the nice quiet pressing from Neatherland back in the 70s.
OTOH, I remember how disappointed I was to find out the new Yes 'Relayer' ( US first pressing ) I bought had an off centre hole and in those days, I had to travel 2 hrs. to get to the record shop ( one way ).
> > So I assumed you returned most of MM pressing. What did you end up getting instead?
I suppose you can still get a few Classical Records reissues.
Did you have a better luck with Don Was Blue Note? < <
I was typing on the mobile, and somehow couldn't see the rest of your post.
So, ED refunded all of the money since they couldn't keep the promise of inspecting the replacements, and AS was able to send me normal records.
I assume by Don Was you meant the 75th anniversary edition. I didn't like it. Too sterile. There are also regular BN versions $20 a piece, which are horrible.
but Don Was 75 issues are the same as the regular BN at 20 bucks a piece. For the markeing purpose htey just call them '75th Anniversary' but no difference from the ones without the sticker. All digitally sourced and the ones I have heard were gray sounding vinyl.
This Bud Powell pressing with a *75* Sticker was just about the worst reissue I have encountered in terms of production.
I am gagging on Don Was' copy: Irony!
This year, Blue Note - along with our friends at Universal Music Enterprises - is launching a major 75th Anniversary Vinyl Initiative that is dedicated to the proposition that our catalog should be readily available at a low cost - featuring high quality pressings and authentic reproductions of Blue Note's iconic packaging. Beginning in March 2014, we'll start rolling out five remastered vinyl reissues every month. Although this program begins in celebration of Blue Note's 75th Anniversary, our catalog runs so deep that we will faithfully be reissuing five albums a month for many years to come!
" A high qualtiy pressings' well, perhaps to Crosley users.
The ones with the sticker actually were/are a couple of bucks more expensive. The plain ones are 19.99, and sometimes I've seen them locally on sale for $12.99. Bought Cecil Taylor's Unit Structure with defective left channel (completely unlistenable), also Tony Williams's "Spring" warped and extremely noisy. Returned them both, of course, didn't even listen to the whole thing. With the sticker I had Tyner's' "Real McCoy" I think, and it was so sterile I can't even describe. No bass, no highs, no nothing. A joke. Also there are European "limited editions", but I never heard them, and I really doubt they're good. I'll never again try anything that comes from Blue Note records.
I was curious about that title cuz, that's remastered by Alan Yoshida since so far the Don Was Blue Note I bought were done by Bernie Grundman.
I can't help to think if they used the same Yoshida's XRCD Blue Note remaster file from a few years back to cut a lacquer .
Well, Music Matters is my saviour for Blue note catalogue and I am grateful.
Now if someone like that redo the Bill Evans Riverside/Fantasy catalogue... ( AP's reissues, whilst smooth, they really lack dynamics and it is criminal what they charged for the toilet paper packaging! )
Did you try Analogue Production Blue Note?
Interesting. Are you sure Yoshida did Real McCoy? I have 17 Audio Wave XRCDs by Yoshida, but the Real McCoy is not among them, and I didn't even know he did that particular title on xrcd. I'm going to re-buy that LP to listen again, I want to make sure if I had the same version a couple of months ago. The latest Japanese SHM cd version is really good.
Actually I have the Concord/Fantasy Riverside Evans records, and they sound very nice. I didn't even expect them to be like this. You'll be surprised. Of course you gotta try hard to get a flat copy.
I never had any of AP Blue Notes or anything at 45 RPM, because I'm too lazy:)
but the Don Was 75 Real Mccoy you had was done by Yoshida according to the Discog data.
And I vaguely recall looking at the back of that LP at a local record shop where they stock many Don Was Blue Note titles. There was another titles with no engineer names but the remastering was credited to Capitol Studio, IIRC...
Anyways, I have been listening to the latest from MM33 series
Mobley's 'Workout' sounds incredible. I hear nothing but a total blackness when the needle gets placed on a record. This pressing might be better than 'Soul Station' and 'Roll Call'.
I have one BN 75th reissue: Hank Moberly - Soul Station. Overall SQ good however there are several spots where bleed through is very noticeable. I frequently listen through headphones which increases the likelihood of hearing bleed through but on this album it's very noticeable through speakers.
My experience is that both the AP and MM Blue Notes are great.
Music Matters is now selling direct only. An email I received from them cited the reason was related to complaints received when LPs have been damaged in shipping d/t poor packaging by other vendors. So it seems you will only be able to buy from them going forward. As stated above the price has been raised to $ 39.99 . Free shipping is available if you buy three titles.
I hope their sales drop like a rock with these prices and cutting off their dealers. They make nice records, but they are being pretty high handed. I have not had any problems with records sent from dealers.
In my experience, each of Acoustic Sounds, ED and Soundstage Direct packs records superbly.
I have not had any problems either buying from three vendors.
I guess that's why my pre-order of three different MM Jazz titles to be released Oct-Dec just disappeared off the Elusive Disc site. So I missed the old price because of that. Bummer!
I'm ok with the change. Yes it is a bit more expensive but if you're buying new vinyl from MM at all, your budget can't be too tight. OTOH,there is no middle man to deal with when the pressing is scratched or warped. I wish they hadn't raised their prices but if I'm shopping for high end vinyl that I know will sound great, I'll pay the increase.
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