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In Reply to: RE: Schitt Mani posted by Ugly on October 06, 2015 at 19:21:48
I agree with you about clicks, pops and scratches, but the problem with the Schiit Mani is the rails will not support the peaks of some LPs without clipping. Many audiophile pressings and direct-to-disc records will cause a phono cartridge to exceed its rated output voltage by as much as 20-dB. Ordinary LPs have peaks in the neighborhood +12 to +15-dB. Consequently, 5-volt rails are inadequate for any phono stage. Even the original Hagerman Bugle had 9-volt rails when battery powered and 12 or 15-volt rails with its AC power supply. Moreover, my cheap 45 dollar Audio Technica AT-PEQ3 is powered from an 18-volt wall-wart. Five volt rails are simply inadequate for any phono stage.
Best regards,
John Elison
Follow Ups:
I've got one. New in a box, and I haven't opened it yet.
Are you saying that it overloads? Is it's overload point higher or lower than the Schiit? Would you happen to know what the overload point is?
Maybe I should just sell it, without even hooking it up. So many worries.
> Is it's overload point higher or lower than the Schiit?
The AT-PEQ3 has only one gain of 35-dB. It's maximum input voltage at 1-kHz is 60-mV, which is perfectly adequate for a 5 or 6-mV MM cartridge. The Shiit Mani has two MM gains. On its 30-dB setting, maximum input voltage is 95-mV at 1-kHz, which is adequate for high-output cartridges rated at up to 9-mV. On its 42-dB setting, maximum input voltage is only 24-mV and should be reserved for cartridges rated at less than 2.4-mV such as Denon high-output moving coils.
> Maybe I should just sell [the AT-PEQ3] without even hooking it up.
I've never heard the Shiit Mani, but I didn't like the sound of the AT-PEQ3. I still have it, but I don't use it anymore.
The AT-PEQ3 has a reasonably accurate RIAA curve, though. I ran some measurements on it a couple of years ago. If it only sounded a little better, it would be a killer phono stage for its price. I bought mine when it was on sale for $45.
Best regards,
John Elison
It would appear that they have implemented the IEC curve (or a version similar to) in which case the increase in group delay in the LF audible range will have increased to the point of audibility so I'm not surprised at your lack of enthusiasm for the sound.
I experimented with my Musical Fidelity M1-ViNL which allows switching between RIAA/IEC. The result was considerable loss of definition in the bass and a slighty more diffuse effect in the mid frequencies.
With tonearm damping, I have reduced the LF resonance by nearly 10dB and don't have any problems with LF modulation so I wouldn't touch a phono stage that employed any curve modifications.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
I don't understand how you arrived at that conclusion. If you looked at my measurements you'll clearly see that the AT-PEQ3 accurately follows the RIAA curve within +/-0.5-dB from 20-Hz to 10-kHz and just slightly greater error of +0.8-dB in the left channel above 12-kHz. Actually, the right channel's frequency response followed the RIAA curve to +/-0.5-dB from 20-Hz to 63-kHz.
Did you even look at my post displaying the measurements? The AT-PEQ3 is most definitely an RIAA phono stage. It doesn't even come close to the IEC curve unless the IEC curve is within a half decibel of the RIAA curve.
Misread the 10Hz data as the 20Hz..
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
Very simple - I looked at your data and the graph!
It is not *THE* RIAA curve down at 20Hz - your own data clearly shows that with approx -1.7dB deviation.
I said that it was a VERSION of the IEC - obviously they have implemented a different rolloff in the LF.
The group delay shift that this causes will affect the perceived bass response and subjectively affects the sound higher up. The IEC implementation is more extreme with the cutoff at 20Hz, but the degradation is still there in the bass.
Granted if the AT sounds like s@$# it is probably due to rubbish components (ceramics) being used especially signal path capacitors.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
You and others have mentioned +20 dB peaks on certain records. I thought that meant this was sort of rare like big blasts during finales and that sort of thing. I could see maintaining a bit of margin between musical peaks and the rail in order to ensure minimal distortion if you really planned to spend much time listening to cuts that were recorded near +20dB for extended periods. Maybe 30dB of margin isn't so out of the question for that type of listening.
I think 20-dB headroom is necessary and sufficient. Therefore, if you are using a 5-mV cartridge, your phono stage should handle an input voltage of 50-mV. The Shiit Mani overloads at 24-mV on its 42-dB gain setting.
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