|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
98.234.102.229
I bought one of these and initial impression is it's nice, but not as nice as the phono stage in my Parasound P7, overall.
Another thing, it's definitely a little noiser (hiss), and the gain as I've set it matches the P7 as close as possible. I may try to drop the gain down on the Schitt and up the volume on the P7 to see what happens.
I've got the Granite Audio Phono Burn-In CD coming Tuesday so I can give it a fair trial.
See ya. Dave
Follow Ups:
I just took a look at the website and it appears to be an interesting phono stage. What cartridge are you using and what gain setting are you using?
As Opus mentions, its MC loading option is somewhat odd. I think 100-ohms would have been a more appropriate load, although you can always use 47k-ohms with external loading via a Y-adapter.
Another concern is its maximum output voltage of only 3-VRMS. I can see the possibility of clipping when using a 5-mV MM cartridge on the 42-dB gain setting. All high-output cartridges rated at more than 3-mV should be used with the 30-dB gain setting only. A similar caution is required for LOMC cartridges, too.
On the other hand, the price seems very reasonable for its versatile adaptability.
Best regards,
John Elison
Schiit have made some curious choices in their component selection which has dictated the low output voltage - the ADA4897 has a maximum rail voltage of 5V which is why the peak voltage is the value you quote and the overload margin unspectacular. TBH the slew rate and GBW of the ADA4897 is overkill for the application. The noise performance is also not surprising given the passive EQ and the fact that EVERYTHING gets amplified by the second gain stage including noise. This is why the single gain (non-inverting) topology is rather common to see in most solid state phono stages since the gains (no pun intended) outweigh the disadvantages.
Having said that, I think the specifications are "adequate" for most LPs that a typical audiophile would be playing - you have to have a signal velocity of 48cm/s to hit that rail limit on the 42dB setting which would be 0dB at 14kHz. That would be an impressive performance that many cartridges would struggle to achieve without mistracking.
I think the product is probably well-engineered for the price point, but I personally have different priorities in my requirements and low noise and a higher input overload margin would be preferable to me.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
"Having said that, I think the specifications are "adequate" for most LPs that a typical audiophile would be playing"
You know. This has often puzzled me. Many here on the asylum seem to put value in massive amounts of overload margin for it's ability to never clip under any conceivable circumstance, ever. I'd think that as long as musical peaks were within the rails who cares if really bad scratches or an unfortunately large dust particle missed during cleaning were to cause a brief clip on that bit of the signal...as long as the thing recovered gracefully that is.
"I'd think that as long as musical peaks were within the rails who cares if really bad scratches or an unfortunately large dust particle missed during cleaning were to cause a brief clip on that bit of the signal..."
That is true and the Mani has adequate overload margin for most real-world LPs with (lower output) audiophile cartridges. In fact, the +18dB signal peaks (from the input signal) that was referred to in other posts is not going to be a problem for the Mani since these input signal levels are at LF for which the velocity is (relatively) low and therefore the output voltage is "low". As long as the designer has ensured that his gain stages keep the equalised output within the rails, then these signals should pose no problem.
The importance of the overload margin is in relation to the output of the cartridge and the maximum signal amplitude and VELOCITY that the cartridge will be expected to trace. HF signals have a high velocity are already pre-emphasised on the disc. Therefore, the overload margin is really needed for reproducing the pre-emphasised high frequency signals.
Referring you back to my post, I mentioned the peak velocity at 0dB (INPUT signal amplitude)/14kHz as being 48cm/s. The Mani would just about cope with a "typical audiophile" cartridge with an output <5mV/cm/s. However, some DJ cartridges have the output pumped up to nearly 10mV/cm/s. An enthusiast "DJ" with audiophile pretensions is going to experience clipping much more readily when playing 12" singles with the Mani.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
"Therefore, the overload margin is really needed for reproducing the pre-emphasised high frequency signals."
Good point about the extra signal amplitude on the high frequencies before they are passed through the RIAA filter. What is the emphasis on the high frequency, 40 dB? There are plenty of damned if you do's in phono preamp design I see.
I agree with you about clicks, pops and scratches, but the problem with the Schiit Mani is the rails will not support the peaks of some LPs without clipping. Many audiophile pressings and direct-to-disc records will cause a phono cartridge to exceed its rated output voltage by as much as 20-dB. Ordinary LPs have peaks in the neighborhood +12 to +15-dB. Consequently, 5-volt rails are inadequate for any phono stage. Even the original Hagerman Bugle had 9-volt rails when battery powered and 12 or 15-volt rails with its AC power supply. Moreover, my cheap 45 dollar Audio Technica AT-PEQ3 is powered from an 18-volt wall-wart. Five volt rails are simply inadequate for any phono stage.
Best regards,
John Elison
I've got one. New in a box, and I haven't opened it yet.
Are you saying that it overloads? Is it's overload point higher or lower than the Schiit? Would you happen to know what the overload point is?
Maybe I should just sell it, without even hooking it up. So many worries.
> Is it's overload point higher or lower than the Schiit?
The AT-PEQ3 has only one gain of 35-dB. It's maximum input voltage at 1-kHz is 60-mV, which is perfectly adequate for a 5 or 6-mV MM cartridge. The Shiit Mani has two MM gains. On its 30-dB setting, maximum input voltage is 95-mV at 1-kHz, which is adequate for high-output cartridges rated at up to 9-mV. On its 42-dB setting, maximum input voltage is only 24-mV and should be reserved for cartridges rated at less than 2.4-mV such as Denon high-output moving coils.
> Maybe I should just sell [the AT-PEQ3] without even hooking it up.
I've never heard the Shiit Mani, but I didn't like the sound of the AT-PEQ3. I still have it, but I don't use it anymore.
The AT-PEQ3 has a reasonably accurate RIAA curve, though. I ran some measurements on it a couple of years ago. If it only sounded a little better, it would be a killer phono stage for its price. I bought mine when it was on sale for $45.
Best regards,
John Elison
It would appear that they have implemented the IEC curve (or a version similar to) in which case the increase in group delay in the LF audible range will have increased to the point of audibility so I'm not surprised at your lack of enthusiasm for the sound.
I experimented with my Musical Fidelity M1-ViNL which allows switching between RIAA/IEC. The result was considerable loss of definition in the bass and a slighty more diffuse effect in the mid frequencies.
With tonearm damping, I have reduced the LF resonance by nearly 10dB and don't have any problems with LF modulation so I wouldn't touch a phono stage that employed any curve modifications.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
I don't understand how you arrived at that conclusion. If you looked at my measurements you'll clearly see that the AT-PEQ3 accurately follows the RIAA curve within +/-0.5-dB from 20-Hz to 10-kHz and just slightly greater error of +0.8-dB in the left channel above 12-kHz. Actually, the right channel's frequency response followed the RIAA curve to +/-0.5-dB from 20-Hz to 63-kHz.
Did you even look at my post displaying the measurements? The AT-PEQ3 is most definitely an RIAA phono stage. It doesn't even come close to the IEC curve unless the IEC curve is within a half decibel of the RIAA curve.
Misread the 10Hz data as the 20Hz..
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
Very simple - I looked at your data and the graph!
It is not *THE* RIAA curve down at 20Hz - your own data clearly shows that with approx -1.7dB deviation.
I said that it was a VERSION of the IEC - obviously they have implemented a different rolloff in the LF.
The group delay shift that this causes will affect the perceived bass response and subjectively affects the sound higher up. The IEC implementation is more extreme with the cutoff at 20Hz, but the degradation is still there in the bass.
Granted if the AT sounds like s@$# it is probably due to rubbish components (ceramics) being used especially signal path capacitors.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
You and others have mentioned +20 dB peaks on certain records. I thought that meant this was sort of rare like big blasts during finales and that sort of thing. I could see maintaining a bit of margin between musical peaks and the rail in order to ensure minimal distortion if you really planned to spend much time listening to cuts that were recorded near +20dB for extended periods. Maybe 30dB of margin isn't so out of the question for that type of listening.
I think 20-dB headroom is necessary and sufficient. Therefore, if you are using a 5-mV cartridge, your phono stage should handle an input voltage of 50-mV. The Shiit Mani overloads at 24-mV on its 42-dB gain setting.
Ortofon 2M Black MM, 5mv. My limited listening has been on the 42dB setting. I'll drop it back to 30dB and run the burn-in disc for a while and see where things are at.
See ya. Dave
The limited loading for MCs (fixed at 47 Ohms) was a negative, although it was fine for my Dyna 20XL. Not so much with my DL-103. Decent value though.
Opus 33 1/3
After burning it in for a few days (Granite Audio Phono Burn-In CD), it definitely improved. The sound warmed up and became less steely sounding.
I would classify the Mani as you did....competent. And I could live with it if I didn't have something better to my ears; the phono stage of my Parasound P7.
I'm going to return it, but I would recommend it as solid budget oriented product.
See ya. Dave
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: