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In Reply to: RE: What is a DP721? posted by Lew on August 27, 2015 at 09:58:55
As you see, and as Ed indicated, it does look a bit like a DP-62. However, it's significantly heavier. It's also larger. Because of that, and again in agreement with Ed on this, I believe the motor is different. Denon wouldn't have built two identical tables, made the flagship a little larger and subsequently heavier, but with no mechanical differences, just to charge more money. And it is a very rare table. You don't see this model pop up as much as really, any other model that I can think of.I sold a completely intact DP-59L a few years ago. I had the box, the packing materials and even the S wand. And where I and Ed part ways regarding these great tables is on the tonearm. I actually really like the DST arms that were found on the better Denons. My DP-59L was a very nice sounding table and it was gorgeous. Of course, the Dp-59L isn't a real Denon. The motor is a JVC. A damned good JVC, but a JVC nonetheless. If you look at it, you'll see it isn't the flying saucer. Anyway, since then, I've always occasionally searched for the DP-72L hoping that I would find a great example of one, and I have. I'll be picking it up tomorrow.
I just can't make hide nor hair of the motor. I wondered if it was a rebadged DP-75, but Ed says the drawings show two different motors.
I wonder how similar the motors are between the 62 and 72?
"Hope is a good thing. Maybe, the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."
Edits: 08/27/15Follow Ups:
It is the main difference between the two models. Like I posted above, they are very similar and have the same servo controlled tonearm and a similar but deeper plinth.I don't hate the servo controlled tonearm on the 62L and 72L but its implementation is flawed. The servo control of the tonearm sometimes has a habit of either over damping a resonance or making the resonance worse. I have several LPs that I am very familiar with which pointed out the issue when I changed the tonearm.
I was under the impression that some LPs had some aspects to the sound that simply were not there. This was revealed when I changed arms and the sound suddenly changed. I wondered which sound was accurate but a comparison of the same LPs to CDs or downloads showed that the Rega was correct and the Denon servo tonearm was messing with resonances.
The idea of a servo controlled tonearm is a tricky thing to begin with. I believe that the best implementation of the servo tonearm came from Sony (I think it was called a biotracer tonearm) but I have never lived with one. So please take my comment with the disclaimer.
I did live with the servo tonearm on the 62L for several decades and rest assured that it is a good arm but I replaced that arm with a maxxed out OEM Rega RB-300 (Incognito wiring, Michell Technoweight and Riggle VTAF) and the Rega arm was a large improvement over the stock Denon servo arm.
Another weakness in the 62L and I assume the 72L as well (both models use the same recorded platter) is that the aluminum platter rings when it is tapped on. The Denon rubber mat helps damp this problem but the problem remains.
I tried several things to mitigate the ringing platter, including an Audioquest SorboGel Mat, but the best solution I have found is a Herbies Way Excellent II Mat. Another weakness in the 62L and I assume this is inherited in the 72L is the beautiful wooden plinth.
The plinth needs damping or more mass to enhance its performance. I ended up adding sorbothane under the plinth to help the plinth issue. Another issue is common to all turntables with a dustcover. The dustcover tends to pick up and transfer airborne vibrations to the plinth. I ended up treating the inside back of the dustcover with sorbothane.
I also placed the 62L on a Gingko Cloud 11 platform. This improved the bass performance on the 62L but I am not sure how the 72L would perform with any changes like the Cloud 11. The 72L is a larger and more massive plinth and might not need something like the Cloud.
The main bearing on my 62L also had to be replaced after 30 years of spinning. I ended up getting an Applied Fidelity Ceramic/Jeweled main bearing and this upgrade improved the low level retrieval capabilities of the 62L. I am sure the main bearing is different in the 72L since it is integrated into the motor. Still, the 72L is over 30 years old now and I doubt that the main bearing ina 72L would be in pristine shape (unless you find one that's been sitting in a box).
I had to stop all of the upgrades and rig changes for the past 5+ years. I ran straight into a divorce and they tend to change your finances a bit. If I were to continue changes to the 62L I would remove all of the electronics and hardware out of the stock Denon plinth and create a custom plinth from baltic birch plywood for the 62L. I would also create a custom dustcover with solid hardwood side panels (to help avoid dustcover issues).
Sorry for rattling on but I lived with the 62L and have a bit of experience dealing with the turntable's weaknesses. The 72L is similar and I hope something I wrote helps.
FWIW: I currently own a NOS Thorens TD-126II B (the model without the tonearm). I picked it up from a friend complete in its original box with all of the original packing. It was never removed from the box and everything including the dust tracing thingy was in the box. I have recapped the electronics and its my next project, after I recover from the financial impact from my ex-wife.
I'm not sure whether I will continue to use the modified 62L or the TD-126II or ditch everything for a new table. I have the itch to go for a VPI Prime but that might be a little bit down the road. Time will tell.
Good luck with the 72L, if you go there.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Edits: 08/28/15 08/28/15
Thanks! That was a lot of useful info for almost all of the Denon tables.
DKB
I mistook your lower case "L" for a "1". That makes more sense, and as to your supposition about what Denon would and would not do, consider that there is not a dime's worth of difference between the DP75 and DP80, yet there they are, two different models.
"The DP-80 and 75 were turntables only and the DP-80 differed from the DP-75 by having a AC motor with a 3 phase external rotor and a variable speed option"
"Hope is a good thing. Maybe, the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."
It does infer that the DP75 had something other than a 3-phase synchronous motor, but I'd like to know what type of motor the author thinks was in fact used, if not the 3-phase synchronous type. Anyway, thanks for the reference; I think the author is wrong or else was careless with grammar. I will see what it says on Vintage Knob, not that that source is unimpeachable, either. In a way, it makes more sense if I am incorrect, would justify the numerical differentiation of the two models.Edit: I checked Vintage Knob; there's not much to go on. Then I went on Vinyl Engine and read the brochures for both the DP80 and the DP75. The language is a bit vague, but indeed one could suppose from the texts that the DP80 had a unique 3-phase AC synchronous motor, unique in terms of its construction, compared to the DP75, which also definitely did have an AC motor. I learned something, maybe.
Edits: 08/28/15
Those were great looking turntables. I bought two brand new DP-62L's back in late 1983 and early 1984. They seemed like great turntables until I bought a Thorens TD-126 Mk III with factory installed SME III tonearm.
I owned three records that I believed had distortion pressed into the grooves. All three sounded distorted on every turntable I owned up until I bought my Thorens TD-126. I was actually shocked to hear those records play clearly and cleanly without distortion on the Thorens. It changed my outlook on turntables and that's when I decided the Thorens TD-126 was the turntable for me. I kept that Thorens turntable until I upgraded to my Sota Millennia Vacuum in 2003.
Best regards,
John Elison
Hey John
What cartridge and arm wand did you use with the DP-62?
"Hope is a good thing. Maybe, the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."
I had an Ortofon MC-2000 in one DP-62L using the straight arm and an Ortofon MC-200 in the other. There was very little difference in sound quality between the two even though the MC-2000 cartridge was Ortofon's top-of-the-line cartridge and the MC-200 was considerably less expensive.
I used to buy many of my audio components in pairs at that time, so when I bought two Thorens TD-126 Mk III tables I mounted the same two cartridges in them and began hearing a significant difference between the two. The MC-2000 sounded substantially better than the MC-200 in the Thorens TD-126 Mk III with SME Series III tonearms. Consequently, I got rid of the Denon turntables after hearing how much better the Thorens turntables sounded. I kept one of the Thorens for 20-years as my primary turntable until upgrading to my present Sota Millennia Vacuum.
Best regards,
John Elison
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