|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
71.185.213.4
Hello. I just purchased a turntable. It has a Grado Prestige Blue1 cartridge. Can I connect with 10ft interconnects without noticeable sound loss? Any suggestions for the interconnects I can purchase for this purpose? As a point of reference, the turntable cost $450 so I am not a high-end spender.
Any feedback is appreciated. Greg
Follow Ups:
Is to try shorter interconnects and listen for a difference. Anything else is just talking.
Back before I was enlightended (ca. 1980's), I ran a MM ADC XLM cartridge from my Thorens TT to my NAD 1020 preamp using 6 ft. of simple "gray" interconnect from Radio Shack, and then to my Dynaco ST150 amp. Sounded great. However, it can sound a lot better, though the benefits decline rapidly compared to dollars spent. If it was "rolled off" I didn't notice but other factors that may have helped back then - an all solid state system and much younger ears.
Hello again, and thank you for the responses. I want to mention that the TT does not have a built in preamp (U-turn Audio Orbit Plus). I still have an older Denon receiver with the phono setting. Based on the feedback, it sounds as if I should reduce the distance.
Would another option be to purchase a phono preamp and place it between the TT and the receiver, so that cable runs would be 3ft and then 6ft? Obviously I would no longer use the phono input but and AUX input on the receiver. Again Thank you. Greg
The latter option sounds like a much better idea than using 10 ft. of cable.
----------------------------
"We should look beyond the measurements." ~ From 'Engineering for English Majors, 3rd Ed.'
"I don't understand it, but it could be improved," and other ageless wisdom from the back seat.
-nt (but link below)
I've never used cables longer than 3 ft. to connect a standard turntable to a preamp or to an amplifier with phono inputs. The turntables that come with built-in preamps, like the Hanpin 'DJ' decks you see everywhere, can probably use relatively long cables without performance degradation, but there are still limits.
----------------------------
"We should look beyond the measurements." ~ From 'Engineering for English Majors, 3rd Ed.'
"I don't understand it, but it could be improved," and other ageless wisdom from the back seat.
Edits: 08/26/15
The shorter the better, but fine for your installation.
10 feet is too long, especially for a mm cartridge. You will get signal degradation. Try it, and then try moving it closer with a short, 1 meter cable. You will hear the difference.
TR
The longer the cable, the greater the capacitance and therefore the treble rolls off. Try putting the phono stage near the turntable and the preamp further away.
Yes.
Memory fades with age, but I recall learning that, resistance and noise levels equal, one should prefer low capacitance in interconnects, low inductance in speaker cables. In other words, it is not really the wire length that matters but its resistance, capacitance, inductance, and noisiness.
Jeremy
Because moving magnet cartridges have a lot of wire in them, they are somewhat inductive. When you combine this with the 15-50pF/foot of various coax cables, you can end up with quite a peak.Moving coil cartridges have fewer turns of wire so the wire's capacitance will have less effect in the audible range, but the voltage output is much lower so the long wire may lead to more noise.
Edits: 08/26/15
Droopy at the very top and a horrific 8-15kHz peak from the capacitance. The hagtech stuff shows it and it measures out for a Shure V15VxMR and the Rega cart that I used. There is an article on TNT-Audio with graphs that demonstrates it for a Shure M97 something or other.
I thought Grado's are MI, and that a MI cartridge wasn't sensitive to capacitance issues. Am I wrong?
____
"The blues ain't nothin' but a low-down shakin' chill. If you never had 'em, children, I sure hope you never will"
Eddie J. "Son" House
MC escapes the capacitance effect but, has more complex gain needs and is still subject to the effects of resistance changes.
mace: It's not the MI principle as such, but the very low inductance implementation. Very low inductance regular (= high output) MMs like for example an AT22/23/24/25 or a Technics EPC205CIIL will behave pretty similarly in that regard.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
> Very low inductance regular (= high output) MMs
Actually, low inductance = low output. Low inductance Grado MI cartridges have low output of 0.5-mV. However, their inductance is significantly higher than low-output moving coils. For example, the Audio Technica ART9 has the same low output of 0.5-mV with only 25-microhenry inductance compared to Grado's 2-millihenry inductance.
Best regards,
John Elison
Grado's also have an output of 5 mv on many of their cartridges. They give you a choice.
With a Grado Prestige series you might be able to get away with a 10' low capacitance cable, but it would be better if you got an outboard phono stage which would probably outperform the one in your old receiver?
Blue Jeans makes a cable that is 12.2 pF/foot, still seems a long way to go for a tiny signal. Those cables are stiff and unwieldy. Belden 1505F is a much thinner, more flexible cable at 17pF/foot.
There are some new inexpensive phono stages that are reportedly very nice. Emotiva makes one for $150. Vista and Lounge are $300.
Regards,
BIRD LIVES
John: You've misunderstood me there. With "very low inductance regular (= high output) MMs" I don't mean very low inductance on the absolute scale, but just very low inductance for an MM design that's still supposed to work with an MM input, i.e. models in the range between roundabout 150 and 50 mH and still an output voltage of at least roundabout 2 mV (@ 5 cm/s). Hence also my choice of examples... See now?
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
G'day all, yes the Grado's are a moving iron type of cartridge and are much less coil inductance than typical moving magnet cartridges, and as such cable capacitance has less of an effect. However the less cable capacitance the better! Regards, Felix.
Someone has probably done the analysis but the Grados have high enough output to require that they must have some inductance. Either way, I'd still be very selective of what 10ft cable I used with such low level signals.EDIT:
If this is true:
http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=37211Then, a high quality 10ft cable might not have that much effect.
Edits: 08/26/15
Good rule o' thumb-
the lower the voltage, the shorter the wire-
cartridge output is in the millivolt range - from a scale perspective- assume <10mV, and if it is a moving coil, Less than 1mVPer-amp to Pwoer/ CD or tape to Pre in the 0.5~2.5 Volt range
Power amp to speaker- well full power at 100 Watts into 8 ohms is 28.5 volts
Happy Listening
Edits: 08/26/15
A cartridge signal is at a very low level and moving magnet cartridges are VERY sensitive to cable length. I would only use a long cable if I could place the phono preamp close to the table, then run the amplified signal back to a preamp/receiver over a longer cable.
I recommend a low cap. dual coax like Gepco VDM250D.
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: