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In Reply to: RE: Simple. Shut down the player to erase memory first posted by flood2 on May 28, 2015 at 04:01:29
4 changes in my routine totally transformed the player:
1. "Climatizing" (for lack of a better word) the player to individual discs (just discovered recently)2. Erasing servo memory before playback, and subsequently after individual tracks.
3. Contact-less cleaning and contact-less drying of vinyl records
4. Optimizing vinyl surface static condition with combination of different water.
You are not hearing what this player can really achieve.....
Edits: 05/28/15Follow Ups:
""Climatizing" (for lack of a better word) the player to individual discs (just discovered recently)"
I'm not sure what you mean here... The ELP is very sensitive to small changes in temperature - the wavelength of the laser shifts with temperature and therefore requires temperature compensation otherwise the detector will get a reduced signal at the reference wavelength and result in a reduced SNR. The calibration disc needs to be used if the ambient temperature in the room shifts by more than a couple of degrees. However, if you are noticing that the sound is shifting after playing a disc for a period of time, that may indicate a "significant" change in internal case temperature for operating parameters to shift in an audible way. Remember that if you turn off the ELP, you reset the calibration parameters (to the factory defaults) that are set after using the calibration disc.
"Erasing servo memory before playback, and subsequently after individual tracks."
I think you may be getting confused about what a "servo" is. Servo is short for Servomechanism and is a term (used in control systems) to describe a feedback system in which an input signal (such as motor voltage) is adjusted so that a measured output signal (such as platter rotation speed) is maintained at a desired output level (ie. the required platter rotation speed).
It is a dynamic system and doesn't have a memory in the sense you mean. You may have a response lag time, but the term is applied to the optical block positioning system (for example) and is NOT related to the output sound (which is made possible by the servo positioning system and motor control).
In a digital system (which is where you first mentioned it), the phenomenon you report does not exist. It is a continuous streaming process (apart from a delayed sample on one channel to synchronise L and R data from the serial stream). Even for those that do utilise a buffer for jitter reduction, the memory management is carefully designed so that the buffer fills and empties in a consistent way. If this weren't the case, the system would simply fall over and you would hear complete garbage or glitching while waiting for the buffer to fill. In short, for a digital system, you don't get "sound overlay" which is what you appear to imply by thinking of memory in analogue terms due to "incomplete erasure".
The routine you follow may work in your situation, but I suspect not for the reasons you attribute them to!
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
You mean you haven't already done that yet after writing all that above....?What's wrong with people these days?
Now do that memory erase thing I mentioned.
Edits: 05/29/15 05/29/15
I appreciate your concern that my listening experience is suboptimal Jerome!
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
... the second or two it takes to stop and replay a given track simply gives the mind a chance to reconsider whatever it is we are listening for. Actually, something similar might be happening to the vinylphile when he/she is forced to get up out of the listening chair every 20 minutes so in order to change sides.For some, that brief time interval could refresh the mind and improve the listening experience. For others, the process could prove distracting. It's the latter rather than the former for me. If you think it helps, keep on doing it...
Edits: 05/29/15
I have had 3 separate units of ELP setup in my system while my two friends (who own the other 2) had their system downtime.All 3 units exhibit the same memory retention issue.
Both my friends acknowledged it.
They now use the same playing/cueing methods that I use.The unit that we heard while auditioning the player in ELP factory also exhibit this problem.
The sales manager who was then sitting besides me heard it and acknowledged it.I then learnt that there was an earlier unit sold to a Singaporean gentleman who was a singapore airlines ex pilot (listed on ELP website as a distributor), and I paid him a visit to listen to his unit in his system which consists of an av amplifier driving a pair of old bose 901s across the other side of his living room. Despite the very poor quality of his system, the same problem can also be heard.
This gentlemen heard it and acknowledged it.So, I have heard 5 different ELP units to date that exhibit this memory retention problem.
Edits: 05/29/15
Have you noticed whether it pairs better with one type of setup or another? I realize that's a very subjective question, but I think sometimes there can be a consensus particular combination of components. (yes...even among audiophiles)
OR... would you say that amp/speaker pairing is independent of the player?
The only advice is to ensure the lowest capacitive load for the output of the ELP. You can choose to have an ELP made with line level output with either unbalanced or balanced connections. I opted for non-equalized so I could still use my phono stage. If you have a phono stage you particularly like, I would choose the non-equalized version.
..and no, the ELP does not require special water or "disc training" to work properly. You are at liberty to do so of course.... ;)
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
I would like to think this player exhibit very little sonic signature of its own....
I'm using a pair of sony speakers driven by sony amps.
Those are the SS-M9 ED? Wow. Rare. I remember reading about and really wanting them. And it seems you also have all the matching ES components. I would love to hear how it all sounds. Nice!
The designer, Dan Anagnos hated these sony amps that I'm currently driving them with in the living room.
In a way, it was quite funny, how he would have epic battles in those days with engineers from japan while setting up to do sacd demos, choosing between pass labs aleph mono blocks and sony amps to drive these ss-m9eds.
I have another pair in another room driven by a pass lab amp combination.
My experience - there's good digital and there's bad digital, much like good vinyl and bad vinyl. I don't think anyone could really declared one or the other as KING.
Many CDs these days are overcooked and sound terrible - heavy listening fatigue. You can see this with any number of online tools (Audacity is free, MusicScope, Izotope, etc.). High res is great when the recording is done right, otherwise it can be a more expensive version of the CD you already have.
I noticed that no one has mentioned PCM versus DSD. Poorly implemented PCM can have noticable ringing, pre or post (this is the fagituing part of digital, that little thing you can't quite put you finger on, that sound that is just not quite fluid or natural). DSD has a more analog sound to it. Note that there are near religious wars among the digital folks regarding PCM or DSD being best. Once again, there's good and bad PCM and DSD.
We all have good vinyl and bad vinyl, it's the nature of the beast. Sometimes it's the recording venue and there is nothing you can do about it. Other times it's just a bad pressing or bad quality vinyl - noisy, static, etc.
In both cases, the technology has improved greatly. Vinyl has really come around in the last 15 years and digital is now making another technology resurgence as the designers and engineers learn more about the processing of the trons. The beauty of all this modern technology is that we have choices. I have albums that blow away their CD counterparts, and I have digital files that blow away their vinyl counterparts - neither are specifically KING.
I have noticed lately, with newer music, that the vinyl release is more dynamic and the digital release has been cooked (volume wars). This alone is helping wit h the vinyl resurgence.
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