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In Reply to: RE: Yes and no. . . . posted by David Smith on May 26, 2015 at 07:29:53
. . . many years ago, I recall tests that were done where LP's were recorded onto CD's and then both were compared. Listeners could not tell the difference between the original vinyl and the CD copy.
Follow Ups:
Sit a person in front of a system and see if they can listen to a whole recording or concert that way. That is the system one wants.
I'm not a fan of double-blind tests, useful for some things, not so much for others. For a manufacturer making dollars and cents decisions about customer behavior, probably quite useful. For me as a listener, not so much as they are not me and I don't listen to music as in a double-blind test.
Dave
> I don't listen to music as in a double-blind test.
The purpose of a double blind test is to prove that you can hear a difference between two components or two recordings. If you can accurately differentiate one from the other with statistical significance, that is proof that a difference between the two must exist. If your selection between the two comes out in a random fashion, the likelihood is that no difference exists. It doesn't necessarily prove there is no difference, but it certainly suggests that you can't reliably hear any difference.
Anyway, if you can't hear any difference between an LP and its digital copy, then you should be able to derive just as much pleasure from listening to either. On the other hand, if knowing that you're listening to the digital copy gives you less pleasure, then you might find that listening in a double blind situation allows you to derive just as much pleasure either way. Therefore, if you cannot pass a double blind test between analog and digital, you will probably get just as much pleasure out of listening to digital as long as you think you're listening to analog. ;-)
Of course, as you say, you don't listen to music as in a double blind situation.
As for me, I enjoy listening to digital copies of LPs as much as I enjoy listening to the real thing because I can't hear the difference even when I know which is playing.
Best regards,
John Elison
"If your selection between the two comes out in a random fashion, the likelihood is that no difference exists. It doesn't necessarily prove there is no difference, but it certainly suggests that you can't reliably hear any difference."
...in the context of a DBT. Again, not how I listen and so not terribly relevant to me. DBT are useful with respect to short-term listening - buying decisions etc. Not to long-term listening with many repeated listening sessions over a long period of time. Many times I've bought something or began using something because I thought it was either "better" or "good enough" only to find after repeated listening that I didn't continue to have the same experience. Long-term impressions are what I'm concerned with in terms of listening and enjoying music.
Dave
Is double blind testing the basis of all of your system choices? Can you consistently identify each component? Pressings?
Dave
> Is double blind testing the basis of all of your system choices?
No! None of my system choices have been based on double blind testing or any other kind of blind testing. In fact, I've never participated in a double blind test. However, I have made hundreds of digital copies of my vinyl LPs and I listen to digital copies of LPs much more frequently than I listen to LPs played on a turntable. The copies sound the same to me.
Best regards,
John Elison
Just wondering that if I get my favorite LP music and put it on digital media, maybe I would listen to it more often.
One thing that bothers me is that the results come out different with each play, for both digital AND analog!
With LP playback (being mechanical in nature), it is distinctly possible that things may sound different from listening session to listening session given the variations in ambient temperature etc.
This is far less likely with digital playback unless the electronics in your particular are prone to drift even after the internal case temperature has stabilised. Normally electronic drift is irrelevant after a few minutes from switch on.
Any other variations you hear will be undoubtedly related to mood...and the number of drinks consumed since the start of the listening session! (In my case....)
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
> One thing that bothers me is that the results come out different with each play, for both digital AND analog!
I don't think that has any bearing on digital recording of vinyl. Of course, I don't hear this in my system, but if that's what you hear, how would digitizing vinyl have any bearing on it? ;-)
I find this too (in a subtle way to be sure), but I've always chalked it up to factors such as changes in listening position (maybe I'm slouching in my chair!), temperature, humidity, my own psychology. . . ;-)
That's fine, not my experience. Maybe I'll record some more and try it again.
Dave
I've made this comparison many times -- not necessarily with an LP transferred to a CD, but with a CD made and remastered with the same original master tapes used to make the LP. That is a much more fair comparison of the two formats imo. And the CD is sometimes vastly superior, sometimes vastly inferior, to the original LP.
IME a well-made LP will generally have certain advantages over a CD or SACD made from the same original (analog) master tapes, even though it may be worse in other ways.
Of course, all of that is a different kettle of fish from the latest high-rez digital made from today's digital masters, which you seem to listen to much of the time. There, the advantages of digital audio are especially pronounced, again IMO.
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