|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
185.46.39.254
In Reply to: RE: Koetsu Black Goldline retip - which stylus profile? posted by flood2 on April 26, 2015 at 20:00:58
Hi
Thank you for very interesting statements on stylus profiles.
I have very good experience with several retippings from Expert Stylus UK with their ruby cantilever and Paratrace stylus. And also several retippings from Torlai in Italy. Torlai saved my Sony XL55 wich also suffered from a broken coil.
But wich retipper are offering Micro Line stylus?
Rgds Jan
Follow Ups:
Sorry, I got your post confused with the OP when I asked you about "your Koetsu"!
Out of interest, how consistent is the alignment for the Expert Paratrace/Ruby? I'm looking at doing one of my MC cartridges with this, since the tip azimuth was off...
Cheers!
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
Hi Anthony
You are right. Currently I am not owning any Koetsu. Many years since I owned and sold A Koetsu Black.
I have had Expert Stylus retipping 3 mc carts for me. 2 of them with the topline service with ruby cantilever and Paratrace stylus. And on one of them they only changed the stylus to the Paratrace Diamond and kept the original cantilever.
With all 3 carts I get the best result with the tonearm absolutely level.
I must say my impression of the Expert Stylus Co is that they have great knowledge. They first make a thorough examination of the cart. So you receive the diagnose and their suggestion of what they feel is the best repair for your cart. In each case I did follow their advise.
You receive the cartridge back with a test report stating tracking ability.
I`m not sure I could detect a Paratrace stylus from a ML or Shibata since there is many other factors in a cartridge. But I think there is very clear improvement in tracking and resolution going from the standard cantilever/diamond to the Paratrace diamond.
I have a collection of MM cart there some of them have been upgraded with the SAS / Shibata stylus assembly from Jico. In each case also a considerable improvement. I think it is easy hearing the improvement going from conical to elliptic to high end stylus like ML/FG/Replicant/Shibata. But I think I would have difficulty distinguishing the last 4 diamond types.....
Rgds Jan
Thank you for your impressions on Expert - that was exactly the reassurance and information I was after! I'm even more excited to hear that they do a full assessment and can do repairs. I've been holding off retipping some of my MCs.
Like you say, once you get past the primitive designs and move to highly polished, advanced designs, I don't believe that the stylus itself can have a "sound" unless the scanning surface has odd features which affect tracing accuracy. Any sound quality perceptions are undoubtedly the combination of the mechanical choices made by the designer which are probably also dictated by the tip mass.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
A very good question! My experience with MicroLine styli is limited to the original tips on my AT cartridges and I have been searching for retippers with access to this profile myself - I wonder who JICO source their "SAS" styli from?
I contacted Garrott Bros in Melbourne to ask them what profile their "MicroScanner" and "MicroTracer" were similar to. These are proprietary designs apparently and they conveniently avoided answering specifically, despite a few attempts. They offer the FGS stylus as their top offering. Price-wise, they appear more expensive than Soundsmith or Expert as they have higher surcharges for different cantilevers.
How old is your Koetsu? If you are finding the tonal balance to be skewed towards a "duller" presentation (and I presume it wasn't always like this?), it might suggest that the mechanical system is overdamped, which implies a hardening of the suspension. Is the tracking ability the same as it used to be?
What was your impression of the Paratrace? I haven't had the tips done yet so can't speak from experience. By all accounts, the VdH profile (not sure which version) is the longest lasting of all "line contact" designs and has a minor radius of very similar dimensions (2um with 85um bearing radius) as the ML. I would therefore expect very similar performance to the ML in terms of theoretical bandwidth which is why I'm going for this profile despite my (present) preference for ML over the other designs I have. However, as I mentioned before, this will be at ultrasonic frequencies and won't influence your perception of tonal balance - this is determined by the response at 8 to 12kHz and will be affected by the mechanical damping characteristics and moving mass of the system.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
> > I'm not a fan of the Shibata profile < <
Curious why? Of the many stylus profiles I've owned, I'm not certain I've ever had a Shibata. My current stylus is a FGII, similar to the Ortofon Replicant, which I much like ... but with my next cart, I've been pondering an Ortofon Black Cadenza with Shibata or the Bronze with Replicant.
I'm interested in your experience with the Shibata.
If you're asking if I am speaking from personal experience with the Shibata then...no.
To me, the design has significant flaws that make it inferior to more modern designs therefore I have not and will not waste any $ on choosing it as a retip option (which Garrot Bros do) given the superior alternatives.
The curving contact line is the primary reason why I wouldn't choose it. Modern designs achieve a straight line and therefore SRA is consistent in the groove (assuming proper compliance match with the arm) which is important for large amplitude cuts involving out of phase information. Secondly, depending on which Shibata "version" is supplied, the bearing radius is somewhat smaller than modern designs which increases the rate of wear due to increased pressure. The minor radius is also larger therefore resolution is reduced.
Using the AT33Sa as an example, given that a MicroLine on the PTGII can be had for similar or less money, there is no way I would drop money on an inferior design (especially since it is MORE expensive than the PTGII!) Hence my beef with the Shibata design remains entirely theoretically (and financially) driven..
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
I've heard the At33 shibata and liked it very much, although its softer type high-freq and overall smooth presentation seemed obvious to my ears.
The Ortofon line is a bit more confusing, in terms of stylus and cantilever shapes/materials. The Cadenza line for example, the top model Black uses a Shibata w/boron cant, while the 2nd in line, the Bronze, uses the Replicant w/alum cant. The same applies for the MM Black/Bronze, and with the Quintet Black, while the Quintet Bronze offers a "fine line".
Here is a quote from a Hi-Fi World review (MM Black/Bronze):
"All this being the case, and taking into account the similarity between the Bronze and Black in measurement, I was expecting the Black to sound like the Bronze, but with better differentiated treble from improved stylus geometry. So I was taken aback by the difference between the two. The 2M Black has a silky smooth presentation with no glare or treble emphasis at all. In fact, its Shibata tip is, compared to Goldring's Fritz Geiger S, relatively mild in its treble delivery - and very Kontrapunkt-like too. Suddenly, with the Black in the RB300, music started to flow with the liquid smoothness and sophistication I am used to from my Kontrapunkt b. I ran through the same list of albums mentioned so far and all slid by as masterful performances."
In the above models, Ortofon most expensive versions use the Shibata, and the 2nd from top; the Replicant (except the Quintet Bronze)
Yet, (and this is where it get a tad confusing) ... if you look at Orts highest-end models, they exclusively use the highly polished Replicant, w/no Shibata alternatives.
Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with a cartridge being tuned for "voicing" reasons. This hobby is all about personal preference. However, to me, it is just that I think the design "foibles" of the Shibata tip lead to a more limited technical capability and I personally don't believe that the sweeter sound can be due to the tip entirely, although the tip may dictate certain mechanical characteristics that result in the desired voicing. In other words, I don't believe that the stylus itself has a "sound". The sound is the result of so many factors such as surface polish, cantilever material/length/VTA, damping, SRA etc etc. Unless the Shibata is being exploited specifically for the sonic distortions (or whatever you want to call it) due to the technical ramifications of the curving line.
Curiousity recently got the better of me and I finally bought an AT150MLx to compare with an AT440ML. I've optimised the phono stage load for each and my white noise traces show a flat response with both to within 1dB. Yet, the 150MLx sounds so much smoother and, dare I say it, sweeter for want of a better word. The AT440ML sounds somewhat coarse by comparison. The stylus profile design (apart from the polish) can't be the reason for the radical difference since they are the same profile. Although tip mass is likely lower in the 150MLx.
In other words, I don't know why Ortofon couldn't make a "Sweet" sounding Bronze using the same Replicant tip but on a Ruby or Boron cantilever and call it a Black! The Ortofon lineup (with the curious Black models) is where the "voicing" seems to be most obvious and I think the AT33Sa must be in response to Ortofon's approach. Who knows, this may bug me enough to buy one just to see .... (LPGear seems to have the AT33Sa for less than Juki on Ebay)
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: