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In Reply to: RE: LP12 SE vs "modern"301 ? posted by HiFiOd on March 28, 2015 at 12:09:03
Hi HiFiOd,
Living in France, the dream of a Shindo 301 is like a dream which can't come true.
(Shindo's products are outlaws in EU and no distributors)
BTW, I don't have any more step to climb on the Linn ladder (all are completed...)
I was considering an Audio Grail or a CNC with a Birch plinth.
What cart do you use on the Jelco?
Best regards,
Follow Ups:
Even here the Shindo is so expensive that you could buy a mid-level nice car for the same price. But a good plinth and well restored unit still is worth it. I would recommend Loricraft hands down. I have tried Ortofon 2m blue and red, the Dynavector 17d, and Denon's DL- 103, and DL-110. I am really happy with the DL-110 it is an amazing deal and I like not needing a SUT, it is detailed, musical and open sounding. The Dynavector is also excellent, but I had I heard the DL-110 first I would not have spent the $$$ on the dynavector.
How old are you ??
If you're over 60 and can't hear much past 10KHz , yes buy Shmindo 301 or something similar recycling 50's idler dreck and join the geriatric audio club . This is all just passing folly fueled by nostalgia. All those colorful stories passed by the guys listening to bluegrass harmonica trios on their $50K idler clunkers and reading a sell out reviewer who changed direction after he got enlightened.
Listen for yourself and make a well informed decision ..
Edits: 03/28/15
I am 52. I listen to a lot of different music, 50's and 60's jazz, 70's jamaican dub, classic rock and punk and postpunk, as well as classical. I did not buy a Shindo. i got a Loricraft with a baltic plywood plinth. I like the sound rep[roduction, and I like the looks, and I dont have any problems with noise or vibration. I can care less if it is a belt drive or direct drive as long as more music comes through. I do believe that there is an amount of torque (or something) in these idlers that makes the music sound more resolved and continuous, I dont know if it has to do with drag ffrom the groove/cartridge interface. But notes that seemed abrupt before, emerge form the music with a putrpouse and consistency.
I hope this doesnt upset you more. Its all silly stuff you know...
I hope this doesnt upset you more. Its all silly stuff you know...
Totally agree ;)
..although sometimes it is a cause of nervous breakdowns , financial strain or ruin ,all sorts of marital problems etc. Better to keep it as low profile and have a life..
What has a turntable's drive system got to do with hearing above 10kHz? You've clearly not been paying attention.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
It has everything to do with the average age of idler user and susceptibility to bollocks and nostalgic trends.. And yes , I've been paying a lot of attention.
Happy speedlering boys.
Best regrds, W
'But don't buy an idler because I think they're rubbish'? I think you may need to consider the advice you give.There are plenty of articles, reviews, and cases of folk who have found their musical bliss broadening their range of options and following their ears instead of expert opinion. Some of them even bought idler drive turntables. It's not a religion. And modern implementations are completely different from traditional ones.
It's all fine, until we start automatically assuming our opinions are facts. They aren't, even if sometimes the two may coincide.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Edits: 03/29/15
Yes, I admit my resentment toward idler tables, furniture makers posing for audio manufacturers and other frauds who jumped on the bandwagon especially after Mr. Doodly Do and Mr Arturo changed direction inflicting some doubts into usually so self assured Linnies camp.
To answer the OP question . NO, I don't think that you'd gain anything from switching from well sorted LP12 to any idler table.
Rgrds, W
Dude, what does any of this have to do with idler drive system. It's a drive system that makes the platter spin not an amplifier! Either it makes the platter spin accurately, smoothly, quietly and powerfully enough to minimize stylus drag or not. Why are you building a religion on a drive system? Oh, you're a Linnie. Never mind.
Edits: 03/29/15 03/29/15
Well ,I'm sorry I assumed it's all about religion of Idler Driver as a superior way of building TT's which makes the people to pull out all that rusty junk from garbage bin with the hope that if it gets stuck into the pile of varnished wood it will transform it into a SOTA performer.
Even the cheapest TT's , old and new had pretty good specs related to speed
and stylus drag was hardly an issue so whats the fuss with tables is all about?
With all the respect,why do you even bother replying to my post at all?
Engage OP and answer his question if you think that "modern 301" will be better than his optimized LP12 setup and why.
In my opinion motor and idler wheel directly coupled to the platter distort micro-details , corrupts HF and gives the table pushed, mechanical and vulgar , forced sound signature.
That's what I think based on what I've heard. When I get enlightened I may change my opinion and direction.
Posted by Wojciech (A) on March 30, 2015 at 05:49:41
"In my opinion motor and idler wheel directly coupled to the platter distort micro-details , corrupts HF and gives the table pushed, mechanical and vulgar , forced sound signature."
A belt drive turntable and an idler drive turntable both have a motor and a platter. Let's assume both uses the same motor and same platter. One uses a rubber belt as interface and the other uses a rubber wheel and bother rubber interfaces are the same compliance. Do you think the stylus cares about what is making the platter spin? Do you think the idler drive one will result in this "pushed, mechanical and vulgar , forced sound signature"?Once again, it's just a drive system. It's really about execution. You might have had bad experience with vintage units but you can't just lump all idler drive turntables into one impression. I am more of a direct drive person due to its ease of use but I believe all three drive systems are capable of good sound and I have done the experiment above with all three drives. So what if other people prefer this "forced sound signature"? At least vintage idler table can sound muscular unlike certain wimpy belt drive table makes the musician sound like missing a testicle.
Edits: 03/31/15
This is worth getting worked up about
.
nt
Des
... to someone that far wrong. Own an idler at any point? I have, since 2005. It sounds nothing like that.
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