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| Model: | KAB SL-1200Mk.II |
| Category: | Turntables |
| Suggested Retail Price: | $2000 |
| Description: | NOS 1200 improved by KABUSA and Applied Fidelity |
| Manufacturer URL: | Technics by Panasonic |
| Review by kristian on March 23, 2015 at 21:34:00 IP Address: 174.21.45.181 | Add Your Review for the KAB SL-1200Mk.II |
Far better late than never, this tidbit about the wonders of a fully KAB'd Technics SL-1200Mk.II, years after many others discovered this gem.
I have extensive experience with turntables going back decades, and set up many dozens of them while working at a Seattle-area high-end audio/video dealer, Magnolia Hi-Fi, ages ago. I'm not a subjectivist audiophile as I don't "believe" in pebbles, clocks, expensive cables, and other such things. My inclination is toward Peter Aczel's science-based, objectivist view of audio, as expounded in the wonderful pages of the free back issues of his magazine "The Audio Critic," available on his website.
In other words, I believe in engineering and objective measurements, and that speakers and room placement are paramount to good sound if one otherwise has properly designed solid-state electronics. I prefer non-fiddly equipment, and believe the equipment should alter the source material as little as possible. I know; an old-fashioned view of audio. High Fidelity!
I have a dedicated 330 sq.ft. music room, where speakers are set up with a calibrated mike and REW RTA software-the stuff that matters.
I have owned the following turntables over the last ten years:
1. VPI Scout w. Sumiko Blackbird. Nice table, the motor burned out after 4 months.
2. Origin Live Aurora Gold Mk.II with, 1st, Origin Live Encounter Mk.II, then Trans-Fi Audio Terminator tonearm, Cartridgeman Musicmaker III. The Origin Live electronics and motor died after a few months; the respective enclosures contained almost nothing but cheap junk. Speed had to be checked/adjusted every night. A joke.
3. Fully restored, mint, Systemdek IVE with fully modified Rega RB300. A fine thing, but, I tired of operating the suspended table (cueing records always makes the platter bounce) and fiddling with it, checking level, that kind of thing.
Having wanted a KAB SL-1200 for years, I finally bought a NOS 1200 for a pittance 3 months ago, and promptly set about getting it to where I needed it to be. Having perused http://www.kabusa.com for years, fantastic just because the website contains so little in the way of audiophile nonsense, I ordered:
1. Litz rewired tonearm;
2. PS1200GX;
3. TD1200 tonearm damper;
4. Isonoe footers (ever seen anything so cool?).
I also equipped it with:
1. SDS Isoplatmat;
2. Herbie's Way Excellent 3.4mm mat on top;
3. Applied Fidelity sapphire bearing;
4. Audio Technica AT-OC9/III.
It was set up with Baerwald alignment with a DB Systems protractor, fully levelled, cartridge near-as-dammit level and with correct azimuth. 4 hours. I sweat turntable setup.
It warrants repeating that the 1200 is technically far ahead of most current audiophile TTs, with build quality and features most of those tables couldn't even dream of. These 1200s are just beautifully engineered and built by a major corporation that threw lots of money and brain power at the task. Little details, like:
How neatly the cueing arm height can be adjusted;
The adjustable platter eddy brake;
The killer VTA adjuster, especially the little lock lever;
How the arm feels like it weighs nothing, due to minimal bearing friction;
The no-contact, no-wear direct-drive motor;
It runs dead-silent, zero bearing noise;
The complexity and solidity of the lid hinges.
General operation is pure joy with precision switches and buttons, .7 sec. spool-up time and dead-on accurate platter rotation.
The sound is everything I hoped it would be:
Substantial peace in knowing the platter rotates exactly as is required of a turntable, at precisely the right speeds, regardless of needle drag. This brings killer solidity to bass, with impeccable leading edges and impacts of all instruments; it is immediately obvious the speed is dead-on and that there is no needle drag;
This precision extends to all frequencies and tonalities; the impression is of CD-like (a good thing) precision to the sound with low distortion and all of LP's sweetness, though that is never exaggerated. Different types of horns are easily distinguished from one another; the fact that a piano is primarily a wooden percussion instrument is vivid. The tonearm is obviously not limiting anything, anywhere. I was worried about this, believing to some extent that surely audiophile tables would have the 1200 here; no worries, at all. There are none of the bass-colorations of suspended tables like my Systemdek/Origin Live or Linns. Impacts part your hair and are instantly gone. The opening bars to Strauss's "Also Sprach Zarathustra" are amazing, as is the fantastic bass present on Kraftwerk's stupendous 2005 Ltd. LP box set "Minimum-Maximum." You are in-the-house with Miles Davis and gang with the fantastic "Friday Night at the Blackhawk" LP set;
Wonderful, precise, imaging;
Dead-silent background;
The overwhelming impression is that everything comes off the records as close to the source as it can, at least when compared with the tables I've owned.
Once these tasks are accomplished by any component, there is little else to say. It's a joy to operate and listen to, and one knows the thing is going to be rock-steady and stone-reliable.
The KAB SL-1200 is, by a comfortable margin, the best, and best-sounding, turntable I've had the pleasure of owning.
Finally, thanks to Kevin Barrett at KABUSA-what a super fella with a super business. He's been right all along for ages regarding the 1200-not that I ever doubted him.
Best,
Kristian
| Product Weakness: | NLA new. |
| Product Strengths: | Imperturbable rotation; dynamic power; tremendous detail; fidelity to source material; silent operation; fantastic engineering, build quality. |
| Amplifier: | Harman Kardon HK990 |
| Preamplifier (or None if Integrated): | Ray Samuels F-117 Nighthawk |
| Sources (CDP/Turntable): | TT |
| Speakers: | Klipsch Cornwall III |
| Cables/Interconnects: | Blue Jeans Cable; Belden |
| Music Used (Genre/Selections): | Classical; industrial; jazz; electronica. |
| Type of Audition/Review: | Product Owner |
Kristian-I'm sure when you posted this, you never expected such vitriol, truly a menagerie of sorts. When I read your posting, I thought it was very well written, cogent and comprehensive. I didn't at all glean from your writing that you thought this was going to be the greatest table of all time and it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. It seems you were hoping for the best and you were willing to give it a try. Happily it turned out well.
I was, however, struck by one sentence: "It warrants repeating that the 1200 is technically far ahead of most current audiophile TTs with build quality and features most of those tables couldn't even dream of." Even with your self-described vast experience with turntables, this seems like a pretty broad statement. Not only does it possess a "know it all " quality but it's really an insult to those with modern audiophile turntables. Even if you feel strongly about this fact, I doubt you have the evidence to back it up. Surely you couldn't have fairly sampled "most audiophile TTs"; after all, there are quite a few. So I could readily understand how this statement could be somewhat inflammatory, evoking some of the annoyance evidenced here.
Also, although I'm sure you said it out of anger and frustration, saying " I can only think this forum attracts the least likeable people from our hobby, because the anonymity provides a hiding place for fragile, broken egos to lash out. It's a worse cesspool than when I quit 5 years ago." This psychological profile will certainly not endear you to many here. (Not that you care.)
After all, to be fair, there were just a few posters who seemed to relish belittling your post and lashing out. And frankly, I found it mostly unfair and uncalled for. Most who post here seem like rational, reasonable and feeling people whose desire is not to insult or diminish others. Yes, there are a few who must have the last word, never leaving an empty space fallow. And a few who delight in engaging until the last man falls. But I don't believe these to be typical of this forum.
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is if you do post here again, mediate some of your language, understanding that some of us take offense when none was necessarily meant. Ignore the naysayers if they become obnoxious. I think you write well hope you're not deterred from contributing in the future.
Edits: 03/26/15
> I was, however, struck by one sentence: "It warrants repeating that the 1200 is technically far ahead of most current audiophile TTs with
> build quality and features most of those tables couldn't even dream of." Even with your self-described vast experience with turntables,
> this seems like a pretty broad statement.
Here are some questions I have for you:
1) How many audiophile turntables being manufactured today have built-in strobes?
2) How many audiophile turntables being manufactured today have direct-drive motors with quartz locked speed accuracy.
3) How many audiophile turntables being manufactured today have electrical breaking that stops the platter instantly when the motor is switched off by providing a burst of current to the motor to drive it in reverse.
4) How many audiophile turntables being manufactured today have direct-drive motors in which the rotor is an integral part of the platter and the platter bearing is not part of the motor and can therefore be easily replace by simply removing the platter?
5) How many audiophile turntables being manufactured today have a built-in pop-up light for illuminating the cartridge and stylus?
6) How many audiophile turntables being manufactured today have variable platter speed to adjust pitch for tuning to a musical instrument, for example?
7) How many audiophile turntables being manufactured today come with a tonearm with on-the-fly adjustable VTA?
I'm sure that several, maybe more than several audiophile turntables today have some of these features, I know of none that contain them all. Do you know of any?
Best regards,
John Elison
...(not manufactured today, of course) has that light; I find it almost useless as it mainly illuminates the side of the platter.
Even so, it does allow an interesting picture, if nothing else.
Later Gator,
Dave
I don't profess to have this technical knowledge about all these tables. My purpose here was to underline certain parts of his post which I thought to be inflammatory or at the very least supercilious. True or not, there are tactful ways of sayings things so as not to arouse hurt feelings. I don't know how familiar you are with this conciliatory approach so I won't belabor the point. You can gladly have the last say here. AS USUAL!
Nice that you enjoy your substantially modded SL-1200. And helpful that you spelled out your system, room, and mod details as well as your pertinent background at Magnolia to provide some context for your evaluation. Having in the late '70's set up Luxman, Micro Seiki, and SP-10 DD's at Garland Audio, a small shop in San Jose, I could relate in particular to that latter aspect of your review.
Since you raised the point at some length, I'd note that in reacting to what we hear, not least when we're listening to the art form known as "music," we're all --whether we admit it or not--subjectivists (as reflected in "vivid" wooden percussion and "impacts part your hair"). And not all "subjectivists" who wouldn't object to be labeled as such--unless you use an extremely restrictive definition--are into magic pebbles or enchanted clocks.
I think your most accurate assessment is reflected in "compared with the tables I've owned." That's how it is with most of us, I suspect, which is why, despite the ego-induced temptation, I don't tout something I've just acquired as the greatest thing since sliced bread or, by implication, damned near as good as the best. Our assessments are relative to what we know, what we've heard, and the system interfaces we have at our disposal. Anything more than that is hyperbole.
Happy listening.
Jim
http://jimtranr.com
You "disappeared" in a puff of "delete." I'll say "hi," anyway. But I have to ask--what are puns? :-)
All's well here, thanks. The novel's finished, my far-more-ancient-than-middle-age butt remains in tolerably good shape, and the 'table (same combo) continues to get a lot of play time, with vinyl constituting about 80% of my "serious" listening.
Hope all's going well up your way.
Jim
http://jimtranr.com
I poofed my post, because I figured dare not "fallow" everywhere ...> > But I have to ask--what are puns? :-) < <
Geez, I really miss that & the boys, esp. ZHEEEEEEM, and his attic, go figure. Jim, miss the stories and pictures too. Speaking of which, I have a saga of a little Kinglet which hit my condo window last fall. It was knocked out by impact (not music to my ears) but it had it's eyes open and clearly wasn't dead. So, without touching him (I used an LP to sweep him), I took this little beauty inside, placed a small meshed waste baskit over him. I immediately noticed he was struggling to stay upright, unable to grip the slippery LP. Fearing he was wasting too much energy ... I placed paper towl under his feet and he stopped struggling.
About an hour later, he suddenly came too ... as if the bulb went back on in his head ... he quickly looked around, and started flying within the basket. I, in turn picked up the LP w/him in the basket ... and let him loose outside.
I then left for 2 hours.
When I returned home, guess who was waiting for me on my balcony.
I've got pictures!!!
TB1
Edits: 03/26/15
I could post a picture of my beautiful turntable ... but my new "audiophile" buddy is so much nicer ...
.
Jim
http://jimtranr.com
new buddy, waiting for me ...
.
Jim
http://jimtranr.com
I'm not sure what all of the controversy is about.I love my KAB 1200 with a DL-S1.Having the VTA easily adjustable is a really nice feature.It would be very expensive to tool up and build a table like the 1200 today.For those that don't appreciate or like it,you are free to buy and use another table.
just don't try to sell it as the end of the road when it is only the entrance ramp.
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
> > For those that don't appreciate or like it,you are free to buy and use another table. < <
Thanks, although I didn't realize Tweety & I needed to seek permission.
You wanted to stir up some Shiit...
good job :). BTW Now you got the taste of DD tables, listen to a better DD, they are out there :)...
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
Say I got mine on ebay for 200 and threw everything KAB makes on there myself after mail ordering. That's what like 5-600 max for the works plus 200? I guess that's about what I have in mine...
What DD's could I get for that money that would make me want to sell the Technics?
there is only a limit to what one should invest in audio nirvana, So forget ever listening to a really good DD table, it may spoil you for life :)...
The point is that anything in analog can be executed slightly better, but it will cost you exponentially more. So if i gather what you say, it is pointless to get a Kenwood L-07D or a Pioneer Exclusive P3a, or a Yamaha GT2000 or heaven forbid a better Technics, because 800 bucks will get you everything a person may ever need. Do not take me wrong, i am not dissing the SL-1200 it is a good table and better when tweaked, but it is the gate keeper of a long line of well executed DD tables, and it only gives you a glimpse what DD tables can be.
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
Lol. I told you what I'm using now and asked what I should get that's better. I'm not sure how you got anything more out of my post. Just trying to figure out if there is something I could trade up to easily that seems worth it to me.
"Kenwood L-07D or a Pioneer Exclusive P3a, or a Yamaha GT2000 or heaven forbid a better Technics"
The workable upscale Technics seem quite a bit more expensive from what I've seen. I'll keep an eye out on the others, thanks.
A useable Kenwood l07 will be over 4K a Yamaha GT-2000 arounf 3K a Pioneer 3Pa is probably 5K if they come on the market...an SP-10 with base and arm about 2K+....The point is that you get what you pay for, but all of the, will run circles around any tricked out Sl-1200. Yes you can get much better tables than the 1200 but it will cost you. A fair match up would be a Dual 704 or 721. I would think it would sound better than the 1200 out of the box for less than 400 bucks :).
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
Or this. Nice rumble specs! I wasn't aware of these thanks. Might have to see if I can try one out.
Never knew about those...looks mighty interesting. But do yourself a favor get a 721 or a 704 and compare it to the SL-1200. You will be surprised :).
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
Penquin,
If you hear a difference that is great enough to justify the cost between various DD turntables then you know what you should buy. One of my other turntables is a VPI HW19 with an SME Series III arm, so I am sort of a VPI kind of guy. I sought out and listened to the new VPI DD too. And yes it does sound better than the SL1200 with KAB mods, or at least I think so - but honestly I wanted to hear a difference. Like so many of these situations there are enough variables to make a definitive determination problematic. Two different rooms, two different cartridges, different amps, different speakers, yada yada yada. This is our great dilemma and challenge. For me the issue was fairly easy to resolve between the VPI and the SL1200. First there is the money angle, I have about $1800 in my KAB SL1200 plus cartridge. The VPI is a bit more as you know. Second, I have taken to switching cartridges, MM compared to MC, mono, stereo and so on. The SL1200 facilitates cartridge changes. The unipivot on the VPI, well let's be charitable and just say it presents a unique set of challenges in the set up department. Third, two VPI's one for mono, one for stereo? Where is the space, plus the cost for two is getting a little out of hand. Finally, there is the personal issue of priorities. I am an old fart, have a lot of vinyl that has not been played for decades and want to listen to it again. But how much is is worth to me to do so? Well in addition to the TT, we have a phono stage to consider, +$7500 for my cj TEA2MAX, cartridges (I am up to 6 and counting) + $$$. And at the end of the day, none of this sounds as good to me, all things considered, as my digital source, a Sony HAPZ1ES loaded with FLAC files ripped from mostly Redbook discs. And yes I read the recent articles claiming FLAC files are inferior, and yes I have purchased several HiRez versions of favorite recordings, and lots audiophile vinyl - Music Direct loves me. Can I hear a difference? Really, no. This is what happens with old age, I am 67 and that is a factor, don't kid anybody, getting old sucks. Your results may vary. At the end of the day we pays our money and takes our choices. It is all just hifi after all.
which is an SP-10 with the obsidian base and an EPA - 250 arm. I heard the SL-1200 fully modded and would not trade my table for it. I also own a JVC QL-7 and a Dual 721. I would venture that the Dual would have some advantages in sound over the SL-1200 because of the coreless motor. The JVC is getting a tubesforever bearing. It is kinda taking Tubesforever forever, but i will wait. Did i mention i also used to own an SP 25 :) was OK liked it less than the QL-7. There can be vast improvements beyond the SL-1200. It is sorta on the bottom of my list of DD tables, OK i could live with it but would not be happy with it.
I would pick the modded SL-1200 over most belt drive tables. I also own a Well Tempered Classic. I like most of my DD tables better just because the drive and stability. Point is that is if the only DD table you dealt with is the modded SL-1200 you have not been to the forest, you claim you seen it based on one tree.
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
Penguin (A) on March 26, 2015 at 09:49:20
" I also own a JVC QL-7 and a Dual 721. I would venture that the Dual would have some advantages in sound over the SL-1200 because of the coreless motor."
That has been my experience. I prefer tables with coreless motor and once I'm used to the smooth texture, I cannot go back to a more coarse presentation. Whether your other tables have better dynamic range, wider bandwidth, more neutral, blah blah blah, if I don't hear the smooth texture, I won't care for it. That's just me and I don't claim to be an objectivist at all. I know what I like and that's what matters. I also owned all the other tables you mentioned. The JVC QL-7 is quite decent but I prefer their later integrated tables with coreless motor such as QL-F6, QL-Y66F, QL-Y7, etc... which all sound smooth to me, none of that "cogging" jittery sound like many DD tables.
> it is the gate keeper of a long line of well executed DD tables, and it only gives you a glimpse what DD tables can be.That sounds like something someone would say who never owned a KAB modified SL-1200 with Applied Fidelity platter bearing. There may be better direct drive tables, but they won't be dramatically better. Perhaps the Technics SL-1200 tonearm could be improved, but it's also pretty darn good on its own, especially with Cardas wire and silicone fluid damping. In my opinion, the SL-1200 provides much more than just a "glimpse" of what any DD turntable can be; it actually exceeds the performance of the vast majority of them and is competitive with the best, especially when properly modified.
Best regards,
John Elison
Edits: 03/26/15
nt
> > That sounds like something someone would say who never owned a KAB modified SL-1200 with Applied Fidelity platter bearing. There may be better direct drive tables, but they won't be dramatically better. < <
Well, I thought the Brinkmann Bardo "dramatically" better.
> > Perhaps the Technics SL-1200 tonearm could be improved, but it's also pretty darn good on its own, especially with Cardas wire and silicone fluid damping. < <
The arm is a compromised resonant affair; adding a consistent glare/compression to the highs. However, I've a few examples of a Technics DD with alternative arms, and in every case, they performed much better (but far from the best I've heard).
In fact, David Price reviewed Timestep'd 1200 with SME5, claiming it provided more than a glimpse ...
(link below)
> > In my opinion, the SL-1200 provides a substantial "glimpse" of what any DD turntable can be and actually exceeds the performance of the vast majority of them, especially when properly modified. < <
Vast majority?
Hell, I've never heard it "exceed" the vast minority.
tb1
That's fine, however ...
> > That's what like 5-600 max for the works plus 200? I guess that's about what I have in mine...
What DD's could I get for that money that would make me want to sell the Technics? < <
I can't think of any deal to match yours, bang for the buck wise. However, a good a deal is just that, a good deal, it's not a magical solution which can transform it into something it's not, into pseudo perfection, much like Kristian silly "review" tried to claim.
hyperbole/case in point:
"It warrants repeating that the 1200 is technically far ahead of most current audiophile TTs, with build quality and features most of those tables couldn't even dream of."
"This precision extends to all frequencies and tonalities; the impression is of CD-like (a good thing) precision to the sound with low distortion and all of LP's sweetness, though that is never exaggerated. Different types of horns are easily distinguished from one another; the fact that a piano is primarily a wooden percussion instrument is vivid. The tonearm is obviously not limiting anything, anywhere. I was worried about this, believing to some extent that surely audiophile tables would have the 1200 here; no worries, at all. There are none of the bass-colorations of suspended tables like my Systemdek/Origin Live or Linns. Impacts part your hair and are instantly gone."
And as for JE SOTA/SME comparisons, which is too often used here as some silly trump card, ... well, having heard the evidence countless times, it's far more plausible that his KAB1200 is competitive with his SOTA/SME, only because this particular SOTA is very much overrated.
TB1
I haven't heard all that many tables besides the few I've owned. Never hurts to get some tips on overlooked gems here, ie no mentor or anything other than what I've read on the web. My Craigslist gets a lot of traffic. I like picking through it from time to time looking for cool stuff.
All I know is my modded 1200 sounds a literal shit ton better than garbage I've owned before, all crap gear by this forums standards undoubtedly. I can't relate to the OP's experience with the previous tables since I haven't heard any of those but will say I can relate to the happiness after finally ending up with my seemingly fairly competent Technics. Wouldn't be the first time someone gave a overly enthusiastic review around here.
Reading the thread below...That's pretty cool you all are sharing album rip cd's so you can talk trash about each others systems. :)
> > That's pretty cool you all are sharing album rip cd's so you can talk trash about each others systems. :) < <
First of, many other groups besides us, share high quality audiophile rips available to anyone using torrents.
Look, I have the utmost respect for those who share. With such an exercise, you inevitably put your own system's capabilities on display/demo. As with all demo's, evaluations are common-place, and since I critique my own rips, I invite critique. Hopefully it's constructive, and within the group I shared, it was always constructive.
John was well aware of these issue going in, otherwise why would he have sent me his rips.
Trashing never was an issue, unless you've described your rips beyond a reasonable description, and that's only happened once (guess who). Even at that, nobody "trashed" JE rips, I merely described the results within my system.
And remember, in a analog world where it's becoming increasing more & more difficult to gain access to analog equipment, sharing different analog equipment traits/characteristics allows you an opportunity to hear product(s) directly within your home that you otherwise might never have the opportunity. Certainly, I prefer that, to reading certain "reviews".
And note, it's not just a turntable/system share, I esp. appreciate the opportunity to hear different pressings. Also educational in terms of setup, such as sra, loading, mats, coupled, non-coupled, bearing oils, belt differences, drive differences ... other equipment variables ... truly one of the best learning/educational tools within this hobby I've encountered.
And BTW, I offered JE the same opportunity, plus any other cuts for his evaluation; but once he realized I wasn't going to wax-poetic about his rips, he declined.
tb1
I was serious when I said it sounds cool. I appreciate those willing to put their system play results out for community scrutiny. A great way to get feedback on strengths and flaws in your system.
One of the main problems with forums like this and posts like the OP's for me is unless there is a way to hear what the OP is hearing it's difficult to put the comments into context.
A cd may not be perfect but it surely captures the general gist of the playback gear minus amp and speakers.
However, my comment about trash talk was somewhat of a joke but is a pastime I occasionally enjoy partaking in with friendlier acquaintances. For example who could possibly resist poking fun at their buddies 60Hz problems?? :)
> > However, my comment about trash talk was somewhat of a joke but is a pastime I occasionally enjoy partaking in with friendlier acquaintances. For example who could possibly resist poking fun at their buddies 60Hz problems?? :) < <
That's hilarious, but kinda mean ...
60hz problems (&ground loops) are often very difficult to diagnose. The "star" based grounding scheme within my system is very complicated, therefore I've had my share of 60hz issues.
Very frustrating ... with or without outside commentary.
Ugly, thanks for not dragging this discussion into the mud any further, thanks for refraining to label (ironically) me a bully, or throwing "pasty" age-discrimination comments my way ... but more importantly, thanks for addressing me directly.
take care,
tb1
Pretty huh? Auna TT-1200
Now see what I get ... TT, USB and SD/MMC inputs/playMP3,
Recording records, radio, MC, CD and AUX input on USB sticks or SD/MMC card, FM/AM radio tuner with 30 station presets.
After getting it shipped from UK I'm still under $400 ... $1200 pfft ha ha
Wow Man, way out there, a genuine rebel, yep, one man and his machine that no one ever heard of before, take a dive, screw the $$$ ... you so brave man ... what that thing call, 1200 somethin' ... not bad eh .. f' audiophiles ha
Wow, this thread certainly went viral. Kristian, you and I have a few things in common. Years ago I sold hifi in the Seattle area for a retailer long gone, Gram a Fon. Like you, I set up a lot of turntables over the course of time. Like you, I recently bought an SL1200 in very good condition and like you, I had it fully KAB modified, on mine Kevin did all the work. Also, like you, I spent hours on set up. Mine is aligned using The Best protractor, which uses the Stevenson alignment model, and I selected different cartridges. We also share very similar views on subjective vs. objective measures of hifi performance. And finally, we seem to be aligned in terms of our opinion of the SL1200 as modified by KAB. This is a very, very nice turntable. Not sure what to make of all the negative vibes you elicited, but wanted to reach out to you and reinforce your points. Well done and thanks.
Thanks for the nice words; I worked at Magnolia Hi-Fi. Where was your shop located?
The 1200 truly is a revelation; I can't wait to rotate a pile of records on the thing this weekend.
I have no idea what's going on here. There are some seriously unhinged people here, getting into the pettiest of fights, hiding their middle-aged butts and pasty mugs behind their computers. In reality, no one would say the same things to each others' faces as they do here. I can only think this forum attracts the least likeable people from our hobby, because the anonymity provides a hiding place for fragile, broken egos to lash out. It's a worse cesspool than when I quit 5 years ago.
A most unattractive place; especially since the crazed nonsense is over something as pathetic as *stereo equipment*.
Best,
Kristian
I do think that some responders to your original post over-reacted in a too negative way to the linguistic faux(s) pas contained in that post, but in the ensuing "discussion" you consistently fail to show yourself to be deserving of any sympathy. In truth, this is a very nice bunch of guys here, better behaved and less vituperative than most who frequent the other Asylums. Guys here answer each others questions and help each other out every day, all the time. If you could somehow manage to "talk" without spewing insults, you probably would eventually get some of that sympathy, and you might even benefit from being a regular contributor. Yes, sometimes people get nasty with each other, but it's easy to duck until it's all over.
I'd feel the same if my own tt was the subject of endless posts from owners extolling its virtues. It'd bore the hell outta me. This guy Kristian is no stranger to Vinyl. It can't be news to him that his beloved tt (and damn near every mod for it imaginable, certainly including the KAB/Applied Fidelity stuff) has already been discussed here countless times, including a few hundred times by his fave Vinyl guy John Elison. It ain't like Kristian had anything new/different to say that other Tech. 1200 lovers forgot to mention.
In addition to the sheer volume of posts about it, I've really OD'd on the hyperbole with which some Tech. 1200 lovers load their paens.
I get the impression you really enjoy the subject because you never fail to post a comment. It seems to me that you're totally addicted to the SL-1200 turntable.
nt
because some of us have no unconditional love for the SL-1200. I am not a a mindless zombie when it comes to sound.
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
Kristian,
The store I worked at Gram a Fon, was in Lake Forest Park, in a shopping plaza at the corner of Ballinger Way and Bothell Way. It was more high end oriented than Magnolia HiFi (at least the original store in Magnolia, which was space limited), we more directly competed with Electricraft. I worked there during my undergrad years at UW from 1970 to late 1973. Later I worked at a similar store in San Diego, that is still going strong (Go Mark!), Breier Sound Center, so was in the business for most of the 1970s.
Bill
> > I have no idea what's going on here. There are some seriously unhinged people here, getting into the pettiest of fights, hiding their middle-aged butts and pasty mugs behind their computers. In reality, no one would say the same things to each others' faces as they do here. I can only think this forum attracts the least likeable people from our hobby, because the anonymity provides a hiding place for fragile, broken egos to lash out. It's a worse cesspool than when I quit 5 years ago. < <
oh, outch ...
child, you can't even respond to me as an adult here, never mind in person.
My take is a bit different, and no less based on observation than your own.
For me, those who regard themselves as such exhibit one particular type of behavior predominantly, and that is the love of dogma. To dismiss something because it uses an approach or topology that the audiophile has deemed undesirable. To decide ahead of time that something is unacceptable or preferable prior to experiencing the product. I have lost all patience for this nonsense, and I find as I grow older that I dont suffer this sort of fool easily.
I find your review to be useless because of its bias and dogma. One paragraph in, and I knew where you were going. Another self-described Objectivist on a self serving, self congratulatory rant in search of a circle jerk or bust, who had almost convinced himself that he bought the perfect product before the first song was played. I say almost because, it isn't until you played music that your expectations were confirmed. In other words, for all of your Objectivist bluster, you had to become a Subjectivist to attain confirmation.
Of course, the real engineers in all this is the Japanese designers and engineers at Matsushita that built your beloved SL-1200. Why an Objectivist would want to modify perfection I'll never know. Interestingly enough, even they felt that better performance was possible, which is why the SP-10's were made. Were these products simply the folly of the Technics marketing department? I think not. But then, what would I know? I'm just an Audio Enthusiast, unencumbered by dogma, not caring initially how an awesome result is attained but instead simply happy for the experience.
"Hope is a good thing. Maybe, the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."
You completely dismiss the guys comments because he doesn't genuflect properly to the audiophile gods.
No. I wouldn't expect someone to do something I don't do. His problem is that he casts stones from his glass house. I on the other hand love vintage Japanese direct drive tables, own quite a few. And also love some of the new tables being made today. Granted, I'm a dealer, but there are tables I don't offer that I like very much and I'm not afraid to admit it. My point is that I never dismiss product or approaches IF the results are excellent. Likewise, I don't convince myself that something is going to be awesome BEFORE I experience it. Isn't that the least anyone should expect from an Objectivist?
"Hope is a good thing. Maybe, the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."
No matter where you stand, observer bias is a fact of life. None of us, neither self proclaimed "objectivist" nor "subjectivist", should claim to be free of it. Real "science" is based on this fact. Seems like you're arguing that you are more objective in your subjectivity than the other guy, totally free of preconceived notions or subconscious influences that affect your ultimate judgement. That's unlikely. You're human too. I agree the OP is more egregious in that regard, however.
I can't dismiss my ears. I've no doubt been impressed with the way some components have looked, and when they didn't deliver I probably felt more harsh towards them than I would toward something that looked bad and sounded bad. I'm not saying I'm special. And I think you said it well...I am a subjectivist who tries to be realistically objective about what I'm listening to. Tubes, Class A, Class D, Vinyl, Digital...I really don't give a shit necessarily. If it sounds awesome- sign me up! If it sounds bad, then go back to the drawing board and try again. Believe me, I'm rooting for you. The world needs more great 2 channel gear- not less.
"Hope is a good thing. Maybe, the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."
Your best quote (subjectively, to me) is, "Tubes, Class A, Class D, Vinyl, Digital...I really don't give a shit necessarily. If it sounds awesome- sign me up! If it sounds bad, then go back to the drawing board and try again."
This sums up EXACTLY the way I feel about audio in general.
To quote another, "I know what I like, and I like what I know..."
Cheers,
Dman
Analog Junkie
Thanks for the well written, thorough, and informative review.
I've been using a modified KAB SL-1200MK5 for about seven years now. Mine has similar mods, but I also opted for 78 RPM speed. Spinning everything from 110 year old shellac to the latest "audiophile" LPs, it's been an excellent & reliable performer that never fails to make my records sound great.
Glad you're happy with the SL1200. I don't own one, but I am a direct-drive proponent.
My only comment, without having a dog in this fight, is that Peter Aczel is not my audio hero, nor is he my audio devil. He's just a guy; his opinion is his opinion. Also, if you really want to be "science"-based, no motor is "no wear" in nature, and no bearing has "zero noise".
There are a fair number of items in your system and installed in or on your SL1200 that could be regarded as "tweaks", albeit they are relatively inexpensive tweaks. Therefore, it does not behoove you to cast aspersions on others who tweak perhaps more expensively.
How do you like the Blue Jeans cables? Do you use their phono cables?
I am not sure why you felt the need to precede a valid review of a turntable with an argument about "objective" vs. "subjective", especially when linking the latter to various items that you clearly believe belong in the category of witchcraft, which I don't really think is fair.
As someone who has had scientific training, I question the belief that measurements in audio are the golden standard. There is so much variability involved, frankly, that without listening to a system (and these are systems, not individual components) . To objectivists, there seems to be something deceitful about the idea of making a judgment on musical reproduction by actually listening, sort of like saying that judging a wine by tasting instead of measuring it is wrong. I don't get it, personally, and I don't find such an approach scientific at all.
One of my findings over the years is that there are, at times, clearly audible differences in the way music is being reproduced, but that some people actually cannot hear those differences. But this turns out to be true in wine tasting as well - some people cannot taste the differences. Others are expert in their ability to taste the differences, and to describe them. I believe the same to be true in musical reproduction. More strangely, as least to me, is that I have also met individuals who can hear differences, but don't care....I don't understand these people.
I don't have any issue with measurements at all, but I need them to correlate with what I am hearing. If I hear something different from the measurements suggest, I believe that I have enough experience in listening to a wide variety of music both live and reproduced to discard the measurements as invalid. Direct observation is a key element of the scientific method.
Another is reproducibility - one must be able to reproduce results consistently - and others need to be able to do the same. This is where it gets trickier in audio. Is live music truly the standard? I have heard clipping in the chorus of the finale of the Resurrection Symphony live - audible distortion in live music, due to the hall (this was the old Dorothy Chandler Pavilion in LA) - so an "accurate" rendering of this concert would include distortion.....I doubt very much if Zubin Mehta would have approved the results. Davies Hall in SF is notorious for sounding very different in different locations. So how should a live recording made there actually sound? And which objective measurements do you use to evaluate it?
Kristian, there have been sufficient positive comments about the Technics 12xx tables, and specifically about KAB and Applied Fidelity mods, that your post did not cause any surprise. That was the good.However, I am surprised to see anyone bring Aczel's* name up as a point of positive reference. That to me was the bad. Years ago he jeopardized his own reputation by writing a rave review for a speaker he was affiliated with but failed to include disclosure. Many folks called him out for that, an act I still consider to have been ugly.
*Damn spell check. Hope it posted correctly this time.
"You can't know what the "best" is unless you have heard everything, and keep in mind that given individual tastes, there really isn't any such thing." HP
Edits: 03/24/15
I do recall this. With it being 34 or so years ago, what happened in collective memory vs. what actually happened has probably diverged considerably. Here's a post on the subject:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/critics/messages/5094.html
If you dig hard enough, you can probably find the original article; it would be a good read.
I by no means consider that episode a factor in Aczel's credibility, especially as so much of the content of the back issues of his magazines is written by most-qualified contributors.
Sounds like a winner!
Would you say that a non-modded 1200 is already a good investment? I've been thinking of scouring the pawn shops in search of one. I know it will most likely be modded for DJ duty but I assume the best parts of it will remain intact.
Or is it worth the effort of seeking out an NOS example?
And if you don't mind... what exactly is a "pittance?" I can't seem to find one for less than 900 bucks (Mk2)
Well, I think the turntable is so beyond what's available now in terms of engineering, build quality, and operation, that it is easily worth the $1800 new that you can find them for; for that price, you normally get some MDF/Acrylic wonder with a belt (tried pricing acrylic? cheap...) and a motor that tries to keep speed. It really is magnificent. I'm sorry I came to it so late.
As is already clear, you'll need to put on your hip waders to avoid the crap you might run into; some folks just seem to wait to take offense, even when they weren't addressed. Like childhood bullies who never grew up.
Me? I got mine off Amazon for $600, sold by someone who didn't know what they had. You might want to keep an eye there; something will pop up.
Unfortunately I can't speak to what difference the modifications made; I can only say it sounds fantastic. And I've been around a few turntables!
When I was a kid a friend of my father's had a 1200. They would play chess and I would hook up the headphones and listen to his record collection which had popular music from the 60's to the early 80's (which was new music at the time) everything from Johnny Winter to The B-52s.
Excellent memories.
and what the heck happened to this thread??? LOL... someone needs to get laid! (me too!) :)
...
It's all fun and games until you put someone's eye out?
not the way I play hockey ...
600.00 + $1400 brings the 1200 to "audiophile" status.
I'am glad your happy. Enjoy.
I own two turntables. One is a fifteen thousand dollar Sota Millennia Vacuum with SME V and the other is a KAB modified SL-1200 Mk2 with Applied Fidelity platter bearing. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of the modified Technics SL-1200. I have compared both using the same cartridge and phono stage, and the SL-1200 sounds remarkably similar to the Sota. There is no question that the Sota/SME sounds a little better because of a lower noise floor and slightly greater transparency, but for the difference in price, the SL-1200 is quite amazing. I could easily live with the sound of my SL-1200 without ever wanting more.
Best regards,
John Elison
Thanks, John.
I dropped out of here about four years ago when realizing the place has too many frustrated middle-aged+ men, once school jocks but now screaming keyboard plonkers venting their rage at both the dying of the light and feelings of having failed at life, shooting blindly at anything they see.
But, then there are also a few well-adjusted folks and even guys who have the professional knowledge and intellects to back up what they say.
That's where you come in. Your posts regarding the SL-1200 were what pushed me over the edge, especially in light of your long history here of no-nonsense commentary and BS-free attitude. I mean, who would seriously compare a Sota Millennia with an SL-1200? Whatever you said about that comparison *has* to be the truth.
My primary contact with AA over the last four years has been to check in about once per year and check your posts (any other subforum is nearly worthless), as you inevitable post cool things like charts, diagrams, close-up photos, and always with impenetrable logic and reason.
But, the piece de resistance was your awesome Mike Lavigne challenge, which, after 35 years in and around audio with 10 of those at a high-end dealer, is one of the greatest audio-related tests I know of. Talk about speaking truth to power.
The upshot is that this place is damned lucky to have a feller like you posting. Thanks for all the work you obviously do to promulgate objectivity and reason in a hobby nearly destroyed by thoughtlessness and charlatanism.
Best,
Kristian
is that good?
I think he means "unassailable" logic, unable to be attacked or criticized.
i only know what he says. ;-)
> > But, the piece de resistance was your awesome Mike Lavigne challenge, which, after 35 years in and around audio with 10 of those at a high-end dealer, is one of the greatest audio-related tests I know of. < <
Awesome indeed, I STILL have those recordings ...
John's rips of his SOTA/SME & MikeL Rockport, mastered like a pro.
In fact, some of his 45rpm Rockport/Colabri cuts still sound truly impressive within my system. Very wide bandwidth, very dimensional. John's SOTA/SME cuts played within a much smaller sonic window; but that expectation was never based in reality, despite John's, claim otherwise.
I don't know what you mean by reality, but it happened. That's about as real as it gets. Furthermore, you weren't even there so how can you judge the reality of the experience.
> > I don't know what you mean by reality, but it happened. That's about as real as it gets. Furthermore, you weren't even there so how can you judge the reality of the experience. < <
... these rips were all one needed to hear the differences, that's why you distributed them as your trump card.
It all went poop on you when you claimed you "won", and far more telling of a fairytale saga ... you claimed your own system rips "as good" or better. Certainly that proved nothing more than a false prophet within my system.
John, let the parade begin ... I certainly don't intend to rain on your "appreciation" day festivities by furthermore ... proving you a hypocrite.
John Ellison is one of the most intelligent people I've met in forty years of participating in this hobby. He has an engineer's mentality with strong opinions as well as a good ear. I've learned much from him even though we are not in complete agreement in every instance.
-Wendell
enjoy the parade ...
Now I understand. You truly don't have a clue, do you?
deflect reality as you may, perhaps Mike has a different opinion on what "really" happened...
"as far as the JE challenge, i'm not going there. JE did a big-time flip on his written perspective compared to what he heard when he visited me. when he did that I lost any desire to discuss what happened."
nt
Here is what happened: Mike Lavigne challenged me . I accepted his challenge immediately and then he decided to make me wait more than a year before getting on with it. During that year I got nothing but ridicule from a number of inmates for being so stupid as to expect a digital copy of vinyl to sound anything like real vinyl. Hey, I didn't challenge anybody -- Mike initiated the challenge and then finked out for more than a year leaving me holding the bag. What kind of character does a person have that conducts his affairs like that? Pretty poor character in my opinion!
Then Mike finally finds the time to complete his challenge and he sends me an airline ticket with a six hour layover in Chicago. I couldn't change the ticket without paying for a new one. What kind of a person would do that?
Finally, I got to Seattle and I made a CD-R of the LPs that Mike selected and I gave it to his Seattle audio club. They conducted the challenge and I wasn't even in the room. I didn't want to be in the room because I didn't want anyone to say I influenced the outcome. Mike failed his own challenge all by himself .
Those are the facts. I was there and I lived them. The only thing you're upset about is that your buddy Mike Lavigne can't cut the mustard when the pressure is on. So be it! Such is life.
Get over it!
Jeez, we've been thru this before. Ya know I've never had any contact with Mike - he's hardly my buddy. I sure as shit had nothing vested in the outcome of that episode.
No matter how many times you post about this it doesn't change the fact the guy correctly identified 5 outta 6. He may have "lost" according to some rule you guys stipulated, but as far as I'm concerned he proved his point.
I think the one who needs to "get over it" is you.
In other words you weren't even there? Yet, for some odd reason you feel the need to reintroduce one of Mike Lavigne's most embarrassing moments every three to four months on a regular basis and you tell me to "get over it!" LOL!
You are the idiot that can't get over it and you weren't even there.
Mike Lavigne set all the rules. I had no say whatsoever in setting one single rule. Mike Lavigne picked every musical selection and decided exactly what audio components were to be used. I actually wanted to use a Pass Labs X1 line stage for its remote switching capabilities and Mike refused to allow it. Mike made me wait more than one year for the challenge to occur and he made me wait six hours in Chicago on the way to Seattle. The whole challenge was orchestrated by Mike Lavigne for his own amusement and he failed his own challenge all by himself. Yet, you make him relive his most embarrassing moment every three to four months on a regular basis. I'm sure Mike Lavigne really loves you. LOL!
At any rate, I really love you. LOL! Thanks for you thoughtfulness! ;-)
Is it true that he nailed 5 out of 6 passes?
"Hope is a good thing. Maybe, the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."
Actually, he would have nailed 6 out of 6 if we had used his thirty thousand dollar Meitner CD player. My CD-R didn't sound at all like vinyl when played on his Meitner. Since his rules allowed me to use my own CD player, that's when I connected my old Audio Alchemy and discovered just how accurate my CD sounded. Mike told me that his Meitner revealed how my CD-R truly sounded and that my Audio Alchemy just couldn't resolve enough detail to sound different from vinyl. I really got a laugh out of that one.
Best regards,
John Elison
not certain your motive, considering it's all archived.
I didn't know anything about this until yesterday, let alone that it was all archived. It also seemed easier to ask a question directly than research the archives. It's pretty cool the guy was able to discern the differences. I'll read the archives to find out what he attributes the differences to.
"Hope is a good thing. Maybe, the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."
> > It's pretty cool the guy was able to discern the differences. < <
Cool perhaps, but certainly not remotely surprising either, at least to anyone I know who's recorded or ripped high quality LP> 16/44 transfers.
Even I think I'd have trouble discerning 100% of my own recordings in direct comparison, even though I went thru the recording phase (much listening) and am very well aware of the sonic differences between the copy played back on my CDP vs TT.
Let me provide another example: moons ago, an acquaintance would arrive at my house so he could spend a few hours listening to my system. He loved it, and this bud didn't even own a stereo, never mind being an audiophile. The thing was, he absolutely refused to entertain my digital alternatives. Once I turned to digital, he lost all interest. It was actually a good way to make him leave.
Anyway, a few years later, after I got my first CD recorder, he came over with some of his "audiophile" buds, and demanded the same analog experience. But after a few LPs, I pulled the old switcheroo using a LP-CDR; nobody noticed any "digital" intrusion.
That gave me a chuckle.
I've downloaded a few needle drops. I have the Mirror Spock version of the UHQR Sgt. Pepper and DSOTM. They are native 24/96 files, and they sound great.
For me, digital copies always seem to soften the sound. Notes don't decay like they can on vinyl. DSD seems to retain those nuances to a greater extent.
I've noticed that JE is now making DSD recordings of his records. So much for not being able to hear differences at 16/44.
"Hope is a good thing. Maybe, the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."
> I've downloaded a few needle drops.
If you can handle 24/96 FLAC, Michael Fremer posted some needle drops comparing different MM cartridges on a VPI Traveler turntable not too long ago. The interesting thing is that for kicks he threw in a recording of his ridiculously expensive Continuum Caliburn turntable with Ortofon Anna cartridge. I don't know if these FLAC files are still available for download, but the thing I found most interesting is that the vast majority of people who listened to them felt the VPI Traveler sounded better than the Continuum Caliburn.
> > I've downloaded a few needle drops. I have the Mirror Spock version of the UHQR Sgt. Pepper and DSOTM. They are native 24/96 files, and they sound great. < <
Share / trade ?
> > For me, digital copies always seem to soften the sound. Notes don't decay like they can on vinyl. DSD seems to retain those nuances to a greater extent. < <
I used to think 16/44 evil, when asked to record a certain recording for a friend years ago (to determine recorded sibilance vs mistracking) I flat out refused to consider digital, because everything I'd heard on CD to that point couldn't capture what even a modest turntable could routinely do.
In other words, I was blaming 16/44 ENTIRELY based on poor mastering techniques, and dragging down the format with it (Teresa anyone). My first recorder was a commercial Sony. A POS in terms of build quality, and certainly not at all transparent in terms of recording quality. It's meters were so slow and inaccurate, I'd end up clipping dynamic peaks without knowing it until after recording. However, despite not being close to "perfect", it was still obvious that 16/44 rips captured the majority of my rigs capabilities. And even more surprisingly, they were often head-over-heals better (certainly more dynamic) than the commercial CD release.
My current profession Sony W66, significantly closes that gap between source and copy. In direct comparison to my TT, it's just like you stated, dimensional data (depicting space & time, like a fading note) is curtailed, and the image as a whole is shrunk a touch. But note, this is also very much LP dependent, dimensional depth of field clues are not nearly as apparent (or important) with the vast majority of studio recordings.
When it comes to instrumental impact, perceived layering of the recorded venue, and especially wide bandwidth/frequency extreme resolution, very little difference if any exist.
However, I will also add this; my CDP offers above average wide bandwidth and transparency. It also is one of the rare players I've had in my system which can give my TT a run for the money. In fact, given the same mastered software (especially if recorded originally in digital), they tend to sound identical.
Now that said, I'm not disputing the advantages of DSD, or hi-rez PCM for that matter. Advantages exist given the right circumstances, but considering the vastly increased file sizes, and the fact that anyone can replay WAV files on near any device, as a sharing tool, DSD is far too restrictive.
tb1
> considering the vastly increased file sizes, and the fact that anyone can replay WAV files on near any device,
> as a sharing tool, DSD is far too restrictive.Nearly every DAC being made today can convert DSD; otherwise, the DAC is not marketable. I bought an ifi Nano iDSD DAC for $189 that will convert up to DSD(128). Probably, the only audiophiles today that don't have DSD capability are diehard vinyl fanatics. The Oppo BDP-103 sells for $500 and plays just about everything digital including DSD files directly from a USB flash drive.
If you are serious about copying vinyl to digital, you might consider buying a TASCAM DA-3000 , which will record at nearly any digital resolution from 16/44 up to DSD(128) and it sells for $1000. TASCAM often has sale rebates and I bought mine for $800 from Sweetwater during one their rebate offers. The TASCAM DA-3000 also is a great sounding playback device for commercial DSD files because it accepts a USB flash drive for playback. It records only on SD and CF cards. I find its DAC to be one of the best sounding DACs for playing commercial DSD files up to DSD(128).
As far as file size and memory requirements are concerned, storage space is pretty cheap these days. I buy 4-TB external USB hard drives for $130 each.
Edits: 03/27/15
really?
John give your head a shake, please!
if a professional Sony is not "serious" enough for you, fine, but considering you've NEVER heard my rips, your advice reeks of pretentious "reality". (and we are aware of your "issues" there)
DSD, I have no interest, simply because the DSD requirement has never been fully established within my not so (big gulp) ... "serious" ... system.
tb1
Isn't it obvious? His motive is keep this thing going as long as possible.
Are we still having fun???
So tell me about that layover again...
NIAGRA FALLS!
Slowly I turned. Step by step. Inch by inch...
"Hope is a good thing. Maybe, the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."
no need to pile on, especially late to the party.
John, take care.
"....for some odd reason you feel the need to reintroduce one of Mike Lavigne's most embarrassing moments every three to four months on a regular basis...."
Below is a link to my Vinyl posts going back to April 2014. As you can see I posted *not one word* about that episode. A casual observer might conclude that you are either ill or just plain TOTALLY FULL OF SHIT.
doesn't seem to forget posting pictures of his SOTA/SME ad-nauseam ...
let me say here that he is one of the nicest guys I have met through this hobby.
I know nothing much about what went on between John (who also seems to be a nice guy, however "frank") and Mike, but Mike's character and demeanor could not possibly be an issue in the never ending debate, this audio version of Rashomon.
to defend Mike, his professional disposition (in this case) speaks volumes.
This was never a matter of who's the "nicer" guy, or more to the point: who "won" or "lost", it SHOULD'VE been a fun/educational exercise amongst peers.
If you consider the facts, they both proved correct ... JE proved a good 16/44 rip can represent a fine facsimile, while Mike proved differences exist.
It was actually a win/win situation, but ... it soon became apparent JE needed to "win" ... representing himself with clear animosity ... while Mike remained graciously restrained.
nt
Sheesh...I'm detecting a trend. Maybe if I was wearing a white lab coat while I typed that the Objectivists would take my observation more seriously.
"Hope is a good thing. Maybe, the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."
"big-time flip" ...
> > I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of the modified Technics SL-1200. < <
Of course you do John ...
John, remember when you sent me your over-hyped KAB1200 rips which I shared (with your blessing) with a number of established audiophiles, some who also own a 1200/KAB1200, and not one single person thought your rips were anything close to the best they'd heard.
BTW, I still have them and many others for comparison, yours for the asking, just in case you require yet another reality check.
tb1
I'm right here Kristian, "addressing" you directly ...
> > As is already clear, you'll need to put on your hip waders to avoid the crap you might run into; some folks just seem to wait to take offense, even when they weren't addressed. Like childhood bullies who never grew up."
Let me get this straight, you post a totally biased "review" over-hyping a good product well beyond a reasonable capability, in turn, dissing other products, ON A PUBLIC FORUM, all the while claiming in your bio that everyone else is %100 wrong if they disagree ...
I respond accordingly ... suddenly, I'm the childhood bully?
The bottom line:
You're not doing KAB (a fine company), or the 1200, or any affiliated person/company any favours by posting a totally trumped up BS review.
"Audio engineering long ago solved any problems maintaining the highest fidelity to the source material, which can now be done inexpensively. Loudspeakers still present problems. 100% of the sound of a system with well-designed solid state electronics is caused by loudspeakers, analog sources, and speaker-room interactions. 100% of disagreement with that is caused by BS, hyperbole, insecurity/fragile egos, wishful thinking, group think, suggestibility, frequently mixed with strong drink."
speaking of BS/hyperbole/Insecurity/fragile ego's, all that stuff .. most importantly; the wishful thinking ... about your "review" ...
> > Substantial peace in knowing the platter rotates exactly as is required of a turntable, at precisely the right speeds, regardless of needle drag. This brings killer solidity to bass, with impeccable leading edges and impacts of all instruments; it is immediately obvious the speed is dead-on and that there is no needle drag < <
Immediately obvious ...
well, certainly not the laws of physics ...
that the needle drag is overcome by the motor?
Failing that... I refer you to the ship that Zaphod and Arthur ...and I think Marvin was there as well... found in the carpark after losing "The Heart of Gold" which was (and you can read this in the book) covered with a black coating that was "TOTALLY FRICTIONLESS."
They put that stuff on the stylus.
consider the irony here ... the original poster claims:
> > 100% of disagreement with that is caused by BS, hyperbole, insecurity/fragile egos, wishful thinking, group think, suggestibility, frequently mixed with strong drink. < <
then he proceeds to post a "review" based on just that ...
Opus 33 1/3
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