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I have only owned the "Sheffield Treasury" pressing. Can anyone who owns the "original" direct to disc tell me if there is any major difference in sound quality or pressing?
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The whole point of Direct to Disc is to avoid making a tape. The soundboard is connected directly to the vinyl cutting lathe and presses the master lacquer in real time as the musicians play on a Direct to Disc record (recording).
Now don't get me wrong what you have is still excellent and should be made as Direct to Disc always had a limited press as you can make only so many records from one master lacquer. There is a Sheffield CD too made from that session tape.
I love the music too. Get any of the Lee Ritenour JVC direct to disc you can find too. Done after the Sheffield they are "largely" the same band. Gentle Thoughts is the best of the three made IMO followed by Sugarloaf Express then Friendship.
It's not just the tape noise floor there is fidelity and dynamics loss compared to the original discs.
E
T
Sheffield Lab must have used very poor tape recorders. Nowadays, people think high-speed analog tape sounds better than vinyl. Furthermore, Reference Recordings made all of their original vinyl from high-speed analog tape and their LPs sound as good or better to me than Sheffield Lab LPs.
Strange!
It's not a question of whether high speed tape sounds better than vinyl. It's a question of adding another layer of sound processing, in this case introducing the sound of a tape recorder before cutting the lacquer. It is axiomatic, at least in the analog domain, that every layer of sound processing can be heard, at least by some of us.The Reference Recordings, of course, are excellent but they sound different then the Sheffield D2Ds. It's hard to make comparisons for the recorded material was different as were the venues, very different. But the D2Ds have a (excuse me here) directness that is apparent in the quick dynamics and musical textures.
I have no doubt that the Sheffield group used a fine tape recorder. Before recording as Sheffield they recorded as Town Hall records via tape using David Wilson's recorder which made some great recordings for Wilson's label and was used later in the Moscow Sessions disks. I don't know, but I would not be surprised if they used that excellent recorder as back up for the D2D series.
Edits: 02/23/15
I can't imagine Doug using anything less than a Ampex ATR-102.I'll ask him next time I see him.
Or you could call and ask him.
(805) 640-2900
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
Edits: 02/23/15
I own the original D2D and it is an excellent sounding lp. Some of the Sheffield discs did not seem to have the dynamic range one "might" expect, but there is nothing to complain about in the sound. I would say that it would be comparable today of recording the same performance at 2496 and playing on a DVD. I am surprised that with all the DVD/BluRay players on the planet with 2496 or better chip sets that more music is not recorded and released as 2496 wav DVD. Not DVD-A's which is a a dead format.
Jim Tavegia
Never heard the complete treasury copy but from parts I heard, the d2d was much better (in fact, I have never heard a copy of a d2d that surpassed the d2d -although there have been excellent copies made).
Happy Listening!
DeeCee
.
...because my Treasury copy sounds fantastic.
I'll have to keep my eye out for the D to D.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
only the original was direct to disc (sound board to cutting lathe) so no tape involved. This is why D2D can be so special like this one. The Sheffield Treasury vinyl and the CD is from the tape and nowhere near the same. The noise floor from the tape is pretty bad especially when compared to ZERO noise floor from tape on the D2D. The sound is pretty good but not nearly the same. That said your version still sounds better than 99% of recordings for many (other) reasons.
E
T
till I got to listen to the original. Almost as good as Music Matters 33RPM reissues. :)
Big difference. Check the LaserLight CD reissues of the Crystal Clear Direct to Disc recordings. They were made from the original master lacquer from the cutting lathe and have no noise floor as no tape is involved. They smoke the Sheffield reissues on vinyl or CD. I have the Cal Tjader and the Charlie Byrd.
E
T
I have both. The "Treasury" copy I bought new and the "D2D" copy I bought used, both in the 1980s.
They are both excellent quality, but the Direct Disc is noticeably better in some areas. First, there is noticeable tape hiss on Treasury and D2D has none. The dynamics are also better on the D2D with better percussive attacks. Dave's piano is clearer as well as Larry's percussion. Lee's guitar is a bit clearer, too. The level of the D2D seems to be just a dB or two louder overall. Except for the tape hiss, it takes direct comparison to hear these differences as they are not so obvious that you would likely notice them if you heard them in different listening sessions.
I tried to verify whether my LPs came from different recording sessions but it appears to me that they were recorded at the same time. Tiny errors by the musicians evident in one record are also present on the other.
There is some kind of pressing error on "Git Along Little Dogies" on my "Treasury" LP, a small click or distortion in one spot, that has been there since it was new. This problem does not exist on the D2D disc.
Wade
I couldn't have said it better. Definitely the same session.
E
T
The d2d is the best sounding album that I've ever heard. There is a sealed copy for sale (not me) over at AK.
I've still got a sealed copy of the DTD "The King James Version". Wonder what that's worth these days ... not that I'm interested in selling, just curious.
@Sondek, Geoff, If i were you i would not sell your Harry James. That record as well as other Harry James (Sheffield) just keep sounding better and better as my system has improved. Very good performances and sound quality.
That HJ record is my backup copy. You are right about it being good benchmark recording too. I've used my other copy of King James as a reference to judge changes in my system for over thirty years. Music and performances are spot-on too - some of Harry's best When I was younger, I played the barie-sax in a stage band, so "Sweet Georgia Brown" is a particular favorite of mine, and I know when that barie sounds just right.
There were different PERFORMANCES, at least of Side 1. (I had a hard time convincing John Elison of this, had to make a CDR of two of them.) Since I've never heard the "Treasury" pressing, I can't comment, but I'm assuming it was made from a back-up tape recording and since the originals were direct-to-disc (i.e., no intervening tape), it stands to reason that they would sound better.
When a friend came up with that different take LP, i knew exactly what it was since I have heard your CDR. He thought that something was wrong with turntable. lol.
I still prefer the original and told him to keep the LP. After he left I realise that the original and his *alt* LP was swapped ( there is no indication on label or anywhere ) so he ended up with my *Good* copy.
By the time I called him he up, he sold it so my good copy is gone! :(
The only way you can tell them apart is by looking at the scribing in the dead wax. I have three direct-to-disc copies of this LP, with 3 different performances on Side 1. Yours probably has an IV (Roman numeral 4) on Side 1 or no Roman numeral at all. The one that got away probably had III (Roman numeral 3) there.
IIRC there were multiple performances of almost all of the Sheffield DD recordings for the reason that there was a limited number of high quality pressings that could be gotten from each original.
Actually I prefer the alt. take of 'Keep Your Eyes on the Sparrow.' on that CD.
The direct to disc may indeed sound better. the "Treasury" pressing does have pretty good sound though.
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