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I've been doing a lot of research on a budget turntable, like the Rega RP1, Music Hall 2.2, Project Debut, Uturn and even Denon 300. My research indicates that while they get the job done, they have too many compromises, and many are plagued with QC issues too.
So I'm wondering if I step up to $700, will there be a pay-off sonically. If so what is the best recommendation? Will it be a model higher up the line from the usual suspects?
Or do you not make any real improvements in sound and build until the $1500 range. If that's the case maybe an entry model is satisfactory until I have some real money to spend.
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Clearaudio Series One Frosted Clear Emotion Turntable with aluminum tube Satisfy tonearm.
No cartridge.
Deadly table.
You just have to convince him to ship ...
$850CAN == $675USD
If you want auto lift off you could get a Dual 721 or Denon Dp1200 (or maybe a snappier looking Denon like the dp-59) for under that price(well under if you are lucky).
If you are going fully manual, you would be best to go used, and could always look at what is under $700 on eBay. At that price I favour the Kenwood KD-500 with an arm, and maybe upgrade the arm later.
My experience- I picked a pioneer pioneer xlc-1850, which are worth around $100,0 for less than half that as the auto stop was bit slow to stop (4 seconds instead of instant). (The guy I got it from has actually bought it for much less.)
I own 3 other tables- a Thorens 124, a Thorens 125 MKII and a MAS with a Grace 707. The Project delivers great sound, and is a bargain at $300 or so. Solid plinth- I like a table that has some heft. I am using a Stanton 681EEE, and it has a very pleasing, non-fatiguing sound.
Dan
Thanks for your budget recommendation. Is the photo of your tt, because it has an Orofon cartridge? BTW, does the DebutIII's arm have adjustable VTA?
The photo is of my table, shortly after I bought it. The table came with the Ortofon. I installed the Stanton shortly after I bought it. As far as I know, there is no VTA adjustment.
Dan
Vinyl (replay) still is, and always will be, a niche market. So there is little new production especially under 1000 $/euro. The DJ's have left vinyl which is a pity since they kept the pressing plants busy and they kept the Technics SL-1200 in production.
Vintage has gone up in price esp. Thorens which has become too expensive IMHO. The timing of the Thorens is more suited to classical than to jazz/pop/rock IMHO. A few vintage TT with good price/quality ratio:
Beltdrive:
Dual 505/1249/601, Akai AP-100, Pioneer Pl-12(AC)/112/12D, JVC Jl-A1
Idler:
Dual 1019/1219/1229 or the little ones, 1225/1226
(Lenco has gone up in price but a modded L-75 is a monster!)
DD:
Akai AP-206/207/306, Technics SL-Q2/Q3, SL-D2/D3, Sony PS-X3/X4, PS-2250.
"The torture never stops"Greetings Freek.
704, 721, or a 621?
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
Thanks for the useful imformation. I was not aware that the DJ crowd no longer uses vinyl. Do they only scratch cds now? Thanks for the info on Thorens tts too.
There WILL be a payoff sonically. I believe that is one of your questions. Which one? I would shoot for something on the level of an Rega RP3, though I would try to buy a used one to meet your price goal. Yes, if you are fixed on the price, you should seek out a used turntable, maybe, one not so old if you like something that has the new look without the new price.
In the end, the cartridge, phono stage, platforms will be more a limiting factor at this level IMO.
At that price point, it really is necessary to look at used tables. Maybe find a used table that needs a little work. I would not look at anything less than a VPI HW-19, but that's just me.
I bought a $700 turntable last week. Pioneer PLX-1000. Fully manual. My initial observations are listed in a post a little further down. Loving it so far, which pleases me as I used to be a dyed-in-the-wool belt drive fan.
It does look like a good one. I'll try to seek out a peek at Guitar Center if they get one.
They should have one in the back if it is not on display.
Do you live within driving distance of Chicago?
Why so? I'm from Chicago, and live in NC now.
There is a shop in the northwest burgs with a Micro Seiki DD40 for sale in your price range.
$700 can get you a world class late 70's early 80's DD table w/arm.
These days tables of similar mass and build quality cost $1000s
In the past I've had 5 high quality vintage tables, and all had small issues and required continual tinkering, so I think I'm going modern this time.
In that case increase your budget ;)
I've had 2 Dual 1019, Sony PS6750, AR XB, Lafayette w/ Jelco arm, Dual 506, and Technics D2. None satisfied me with their idiosyncrasies. I've decided on a late model tt, unless I happen upon a vintage I can't resist.
What went wrong with the Sony PS-6750, manual TT isn't it. arm? sonics?
If shopping sub $1500, I'd probably go with the ProJect Carbon at $450 w/Ortofon Red. I just don't trust the MDF platter on the RP1. That said, most tables in this price range are going to have compromises - no way around it.
For Rega, I think their sweet spot for price/performance is the Rp6 at $1500. Rega does often get a lot of things right, particularly in their mid-range tables.
If going used - all bets are off. This is probably the best way to go. Every table I've owned has been *lightly* used and the savings are usually worth the hassle.
If going new - I don't think that $700 is going to necessarily yield any major benefits over the $500 range.
Read the new March Stereophile review of the Pioneer. I would still consider the Project Debut Carbon DC and a nice phono stage if you need one.
Jim Tavegia
I assume you're looking for a new production table, not a vintage one. If vintage, it is very hard to go wrong with the Thorens TD-150. I lived happily with one for more than 25 years and it was dead-stone reliable and extremely musical as well. If you get a nicely maintained one, like the one posted below, I think you'll be very happy.
For new production, I think the VPI Traveler is about as low as I'd go on the pecking order. It sounds really quite nice. The gimbal tonearm is quite competent, impressively supporting some pretty expensive cartridges without shame.
Modern-but-used is another category you might check out. You can occasionally pick up an early VPI Scout for about that price as well. The Scout has a nice upgrade path, but the base Scout is a lot more lively and fun than most people give it credit for. The bigger VPI's deliver a lot more of the audiophile virtues (extended bass, deep black silences), but not much more music. Highly recommended.
Vintage can be a crap shoot, but a lot of 70's Japanese direct drive tables are well past their sell-by dates, and most could use replacement of their power supply caps at least. I like some of the simple ones, like the Technics SL-Q2 or Q3. Probably less than $200 for a decent one, which gives you the chance to buy a better phono cartridge and/or invest in a decent phono stage.
Hope this helps!
"Knowing what you don't know is, in a sense, omniscience"
Thanks Comet. I suspected I would have the spend more doe on a modern turntable to get a good performer.
I have owned 6 very capable vintage turntables (but not the td150) and they all had some kind of issue, either with speed consistency, cueing smoothness, or suspension. One was a suspended AR XB, but our townhomes truss floor joists are too springy so it skipped relentlessly (a wall shelf is not an option).
The VPIs do seem really nice, and I suspected it would cost this much to get a good performing turntable, but they are out of price range.
Don't see how you could go wrong with the TD-150 for sale on the Asylum. Its been completely refurbished by one of the most knowledgeable Thorens vinylistas around (follow the link to read a description and see pictures of the restoration), has a beautiful custom plinth, and no longer has a 'springy' suspension. Seller's including a Herbie's mat and a DL-103 cart. The Jelco 370H is an excellent arm with oil damping ability. The table even has a KAB RCA jack plate. No dog in the fight here, but that's one very nice table, arm and cart. And not far from you. Whatever you choose, however, I wish you good luck.
It's for local pick-up only.
Probably another 'other coast' bias - ~250 miles is rather local to me. For that table, I'd drive that distance.
Sorry but traveling 400mi is too far
He doesn't want to ship.
Really good guy though.
Good luck
Should ask more.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
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