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50.1.55.52
Is this possible?I've been using a number of vintage cartridges lately that have very thick, warm, dynamic sounds. I am seeking more refinement. There is a hardness to the sound with some of these older units. Every time I switch back to a modern cartridge, the sound is more refined, tracking improves, but everything sounds smaller, thinner, and less impressive.
I want a moving coil cartridge for under $1000 that is big, bold, expressive, warm, dark, thick, dynamic, but also silky smooth. I'm looking for something that sound huge, seductive, full, and larger than life. I don't care if it's warmer or more romantic than neutral. What would it be? Also open to moving magnet recommendations. I do not like the Denon DL103, which I have tried. I thought it was too bright in my system.
Edits: 01/28/15Follow Ups:
I may have missed it, but I didn't see what arm you are using is or its mass.
sf
The new Ortofon Quintet Black, at $999 retail, is said to have the sound you are looking for. It boasts a nude shibata stylus, like the. Ginger brother Cadenza Black cartridge.
If you can still find one, the Benz Ace at around $800 was also a steal. I had a Benz Ace LOMC on my Scout for more than 5 years, and it enjoyed it. The Ortofon is more detailed and analytical, but never at the expense of the music.
Ortofon SPU GME. You have to have at least a medium mass tonearm; one that can handle the 30+ grams of this beast. Sound quality will be affected by your stepup, which should be a transformer.
Cartridge cost will be around $1K. Stepups start around $300 and the sky's the limit.
IMHO, this cartridge will do everything you've requested.
jD
Does anyone have experience with that? Would it be a candidate?
Hi,
I think the Koetsu Black will fullfill your requirements . You usually get them for a thousand dollars or less when preowned.
mondial
It is as close to your description as you can get. Have no idea how it will fit the rest of your system.
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"One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane."
This cartridge is actually very interesting to me. I'm concerned that it will be bright. I want something that is extremely warm and smooth. Comments?
It's anything but bright. In their review, Hi-Fi World called the AT33ev a "poor man's Koetsu". It's tonal balance is quite like my Koetsu , with great frequency extension at both ends, and a nice full balance without sounding slow or rolled off.
Very good value at the aprox $500 price it sells for most of the time. It's also beautifully constructed.
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"One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane."
That's great to hear. Right now the AT33EV is at the top of my list. I think I will continue to watch this discussion, but also look around for a deal on one of these. Thanks
Is this a trusted seller? I'm suspicious of audio gear from Hong Kong, home of the fake cable industry.
I bought SME cartridge leads from 2juki in the past!
Is it soft and silky? I need soft and silky. I can't stand even the slightest trace of hard, metallic, or etched sound.
Edits: 01/30/15
If AT33EV is not sufficiently smooth and silky, you will not find the one.
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"One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane."
.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
No problems with sibilants and a big step up from the AT OC9 MkII that was its predecessor. Not at all sterile but, reasonably detailed and great bass. Cheap too, as it is discontinued and LPGear has it on sale.
The Denon 103 can sound bright and harsh if it is not loaded properly. What loading are you using?
Should IMO be on your short list
Frank
....
Kind of Blue
.
I also recommend the DV 20xl. It sounds exactly like what you're looking for.
did you think about trying a moving iron like the Soundsmits? I think the Boheme is right in that range. You would be surprised how much slam the SS MI cartridges have. I only heard the Sussuro in person, but i am certain the rest carries that family sound. Another option would the a used London Decca, there you have slam and drive, at the expense of extreme tracking and bottom end linearity. The Decca is a bit lumpy down there :)....
If that does not float your boat, how about a Shelter 501, although it is above your budget a bit at 1300, it will present a wall of sound, and it can be a lush dynamic cartridge in the right arm.
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
I am a happy owner of a Shelter 501 mk III. I fully agree with Penquin's description. It is really lush without beeing undynamic.
I have no relation to, nor can I vouch for, the seller. See link below:
Hmm, DL103 too bright in your system? I find that odd if the 103 is anything like the DL-103R.
I find the 103R cartridge to be a bit warmer than others I've had including the more 'refined' Dynavector 17D3. That Dyna is more transparent, neutral, and extended to my ear.
You might like the Benz Glider SL which to my ear is warmer and more full-bodied. Do they still make that cartridge or did I read that Benz was going way high-end only... or did they go belly up?
Have you considered the Dynavector DV-20X2 ? I don't own that one but I really like my previous generation DV-20X for it's robust and warmer tone. Of course, the one I have was around $650 new if I recall. The new ones are closer to $1000 I believe.
Just some thoughts.
> Hmm, DL103 too bright in your system? I find that odd if the 103 is anything like the DL-103R.
I had the same reaction when I read that description. However, like you, I've never heard the plain DL-103. Both of mine are DL-103R and DL-103SA cartridges. The DL-103SA is simply a DL-103R in a better body. Neither of these were ever bright in my system.
Best regards,
John Elison
Agreed. I've been running either a 103R or Zu 103 thru an Auditorium 23 SUT for 2 years. Fabulous results with no hint of brightness here. I would have to think the OP has mismatch issues somewhere in the chain.
assuming the system listed in his profile is up to date I don't see any "mismatch" or components/spkrs. that would result in brightness. In fact, I'd think his system would lean a tad towards rich/warm. He doesn't list a phono section though, so dunno how that might play into the perceived brightness.
Edits: 01/29/15
Yep.... the phono section or more likely the step-up device used is the culprit.
it ain't the 103. Possibly silver clad copper ICs or bright electronics or even speakers, but NOT the 103.
Opus 33 1/3
"Bright" is just about the last of the over 1 million words in the English language that I would apply to the 103.
nt
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Can't figure that statement out.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
I don't understand it either! I own both the plain-Jane DL-103 and the DL-103r and would never call either of them too bright.
My advice - look elsewhere in the system.
Cheers,
Al
Based on your desire for bold, expressive, warm, dark, thick, dynamic, but also silky smooth , the only moving coil that comes to mind is the Audio Technica AT33EV . This one might possibly fit the bill.
It has been my experience that most low-output moving coils are smooth in the highs even if some of them are somewhat bright. My favorite cartridge right now is the Denon DL-S1 , which retails for $949. Unfortunately, I don't think it is warm, dark or thick. In my system it sounds very neutral, dynamic and musically pleasing with smooth highs, especially when loaded heavily with 20-ohms. The AT33EV, on the other hand is warm, dark and somewhat thick in addition to being fairly dynamic and silky smooth in the highs. I'm using mine with a Bob's Devices CM-1131 SUT set to 1:20 turns-ratio into a tube MM phono stage. I think the AT33EV might provide exactly what you're looking for. Anyway, it's not too expensive at $500.
Good luck,
John Elison
Great sounding cartridge, & in addition to its other attributes noted by John, it has perhaps the best channel separation I've heard.
I have been stuck at the 1k level with MC's for awhile, so I can share a little insight.
If all you have been using are MM, then spending up to 1K for a MC should be a revelation as far as overall sonics. Everything will be heard as "HD"
Then, after getting accustomed to the new sound, your own personal preferences will start to hone in on whatever particular cart it is and its own unique "shortcomings"
This is of course my experience so YMMV of course. Then there is always great reviews of carts ONLY $500 more that claim to kill the 1k cart you just purchased!
With that said, I settled on an Audio Technica OC9III which is half the price and close enough to satisfaction until I get the nerve to spend 1500+ on a cart I REALLY want.
There seems to be more fans of the AT33 which can also be had for cheap.
Read the reviews on the Benz Micro Glider. If interested, I have one with plenty of life on the stylus. PM me
If you have enough gain, I can recommend from personal experience the Denon DL-S1. It fits all your needs, and even includes things you didn't ask for such as detail and an extended high end. BUT... with output of only .15mv, you need 70db of gain. It retails for $949.00. Here is another but: it appears that Denon has discontinued them and they are rapidly disappearing from the market. I think LP gear still has them. Amazon may be able to get you one as well. They used to be available gray market from Japan (Comet Supply) but they are long gone.
While I don't have any personal experience, someone whose ears I trust says that the AT ART-7 also fits your bill. They are available only through the gray market. Ebay seller 2Juki has them and he is known to be reliable. There are others on ebay as well who supply this cart. It isn't available directly from a US seller. That will run you approximately $875. It too is a very low output cart and you will need that 70db of gain in your phono section/preamp.
I know you're only looking at MCs, but I can recommend one MM highly - Clearaudio's Maestro Wood V2. Almost as good as the DL-S1, but not quite (slightly veiled in direct comparison, narrower but deeper soundstage). That's $1200 retail. Hope this helps.
Fits your description perfectly. Out of your price range brand new, and rare on the used market, but still worth searching out.
There may be other cartridges out there that you might prefer, but the McBee is a real honey.
Great tracker and one of the least "mechanical" sounding cartridges I've heard. The Koetsu I have is only slightly better. I could easily live with the McBee as my last cartridge.
nt
Dman
Analog Junkie
It does indeed appear to be Blade Runner.
I'm still amazed that they were able to get the amount of playing time per side without much of a compromise in level or bottom end!
Dman
Analog Junkie
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