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In Reply to: RE: Narrowing down the quest for better system posted by jennconducts on November 26, 2014 at 15:35:55
I have great respect for John E and Opus but I cannot agree on the Yaquin MS 23B phono preamp. I have one on loan from a very kind member and I've tried replacement tubes from Upscale Audio.The other phono preamp I tried on MM/MI cartridges was an Audio Alchemy VAC-In-The Box phono preamp. It's a MM/MC phono preamp that I believed retailed for $250 when new.
I tried the Yaquin and Audio Alchemy preamps with an NOS ADC XLM II Improved and a Shure Ultra 500 with a SAS stylus. The MS-23B is on loan and I am considering whether to buy it from the owner. I ordered a set of replacement Tung Sol 12AX7 tubes from Upscale Audio. The 12AX7s are supposedly excellent tubes and I bought the highest grade of those tubes available from Upscale Audio.
The MS-23B sounded a bit closed in and restricted in when I first tried it out. I'm used to an Acoustech PH-1P phono preamp with LOMC cartridges. It is an OPAmp based all SS preamp designed by Ron Sutherland who has gone on to design a line of successful phono preamps under his own name. The PH-1P was an early design of his marketed by Chad Kassem. It got good reviews and was highly rated by Stereophile (if you care about that stuff).
I had trouble with the PH-1P when I tried to use it as a MM preamp. Odd, it works fine as a LOMC phono preamp but it makes an odd noise when it is used with any of the MM/MI designs I've tried it with.
All of that aside, I prefer a very neutral and transparent sounding component with lots or reach down low and up high. The PH-1P does fine in all of that area and wanted something to try out with the MM/MI cartridges that I've had collecting dust on my shelf.
The first I tried was the MS-23B. It was decent and not at all objectionable but it lacked transparency and sounded closed in compared to what I was used to. The unit I had on loan also had a low level hum that was not too objectionable but it was there. The replacement tubes from Upscale Audio help the low level hum a bit, making the low level even lower. The replacement tubes also made the MS-23B sound more open and closer to my liking compared to the stock tubes.
The replacement tubes got the little MS-23B closer but it still sounded a bit closed in and I kept waiting for the phono preamp to get out of the way and let the two cartridges sing. The VAC-In-The-Box was another story. It was open, transparent and sounded much better than an inexpensive little phono preamp should. In short the Audio Alchemy wiped the floor with the Yaquin in my system.
The setup was as follows:
Turntable: Denon DP-62L with ceramic/jeweled bearing
Tonearm: OEM Rega RB-300 with incognito wiring, Mitchell Technoweight and Riggle VTAF
Linestage: Audible Illusions L1 (modified)
Power Amp: Adcom GFA-555II (modified)
Speakers: Magnepan MGMC1
Subwoofer: Polk 350W
ICs: Kimber HeroIf I were going to spend $3000 on an upgrade I would consider something like the Manley Labs Chinook, EAR 834P or Simaudio Moon 310LP (just to mention a few). All of the above will elevate your analog system's performance and you can spend the rest of your cash on the best component to ensure you get great performance...better LPs.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Edits: 11/26/14Follow Ups:
It's ironic you should mention the Audio Alchemy VAC-In-The Box. A friend bought one for use with his Dynavector moving coil cartridge back in the day when Stereophile had labeled it a best buy. It sounded so bad to him that he sent it to me for evaluation. I also thought it was the worst sounding phono stage I had ever heard. In fact, it sounded so bad to me that I thought it was defective. I called Audio Alchemy and they sent a replacement immediately. The replacement sounded exactly the same. My friend returned it for a refund. We never tried it with a MM cartridge because neither of us owned MM cartridges.
Anyway, that's my experience with the Audio Alchemy VAC-In-The Box.
With respect to the Yaqin phono stage, I have never used it with a MM cartridge, either. I have only used it in conjunction with a Bob's Devices 1131 step-up transformer, and it sounds absolutely spectacular in my system. That combination comes pretty close to sounding as good as my $4200 Pass Labs XOno phono stage. However, I've never tried the Yaqin with a MM cartridge.
Best regards,
John Elison
John,
Once again system synergy raises its head and renders gear recommendations somewhat pointless.
The info that I dug up on the VAC-In-The-Box had to do with reports that it was too noisy to perform its job as a LOMC phono preamp. I checked it out at its maximum gain setting and it did have too much hiss to use it with LOMCs with an output of around 0.25mv/ch...which covers a lot of LOMCs. Maybe that was the issue when coupled to your friends LOMCs.
I'm sure it didn't help matters. I suppose it may be OK with higher output LOMCs like the Lyra's with an output of around 0.5mv/ch. I don't doubt it would have a different sound characteristic coupled to a stepup also.
I tried it with both a MM (Shure Ultra 500) and a MI (ADC XLM II Improved) which should cover some differences loading wise and, in spite of whatever differences each cartridge may present, both were limited sonically in about the same way. I wanted to really like it but something is holding the preamp back internally.
Please let me know whether your MS-23B has a low level hum in both channels. Perhaps this unit has a problem that causes the hum and effects its sonic performance. It would be unfair to trash this phono preamp if it were just an issue with this particular unit.
Anyway....I'd like to take this opportunity to wish you and your family a Happy Thanksgiving. In fact this wish is extended to my friend Henry and all inmates here.
Take care and try not to eat too much,
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Yes, the VAC-in-the-box was very noisy on both the 50-dB and 60-dB gain settings.
The Yaqin is luscious and musical. Mine has a faint buzz in one of the channels. It's not noticeable when music is playing but can be heard faintly in-between cuts when the volume is turned up real loud.
Happy Thanksgiving,
John Elison
I have used the Yaquin MS22 with both moving coils (with a head amp) and moving magnets and found it to be absurdly good for the price.
Very slightly "thick" with stock tubes, but still an amazing price/performance.
If you are having problems with yours I would look to something other than the Yaquin.
But that's just me, with my system.
But I got some dammed stomach virus over the holiday weekend.
Many thanks for your input on the preamp,
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
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