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In Reply to: RE: Those ruler-flat charts always amuse me. posted by John Elison on October 22, 2014 at 06:57:01
Sorry about that, John. Sticking strictly to the last one you posted, are we to believe that there's no reason to plot anything below 1 KHz? And that there's really no deviation from 100% ruler-flat response until way above the hearing capabilities of bats?
My recollection is that every FR chart packed with every cart I've ever owned looks essentially like that one, although I'm not about to go back and look at the ones I still own so I may be wrong. In any event, this is why I stopped paying attention to them long ago. Am I alone?
Follow Ups:
> are we to believe that there's no reason to plot anything below 1 KHz?
I have no need for plotting anything below 1000-Hz because every cartridge I've plotted looked pretty much the same below 1000-Hz. The major differences occur above 1000-Hz. I'm surprised you don't know these things being as old as you are and as interested in vinyl as you are. All cartridges are fairly linear below 1000-Hz, at least all the cartridges I've had experience with. As I said, you can easily look up my frequency response plots, which do plot frequency response from 20-Hz to 20-kHz and see for yourself. The critical part of a moving coil's frequency response occurs in the upper frequencies. However, most manufacturers that supply frequency response graphs do not use test records that go higher than 20-kHz. This graph from Denon is the first graph I've seen from a manufacturer that goes all the way out to 50-kHz.
> My recollection is that every FR chart packed with every cart I've ever owned looks essentially like that one
Well, I wish you would go back and look for your frequency response charts. I would love for you to post any other manufacturer's frequency response chart that goes out to 50-kHz. I would like to see that simply because I don't recall seeing any like that. If you have a scanner, I'd be very interested in seeing any you may have from other manufacturers that go out to 50-kHz.
Thanks,
John Elison
Found exactly one FR chart (must have pitched any others), for a Denon 103. Showed the ubiquitous ruler flat line from 1 KHz to to around (my guess) 17 KHz where it started DOWNward and ended with a cliff-drop at 20 KHz. This is with 1 K-Ohm loading.
I thought these things had a rising high end.
Found a seemingly usable AT-OC9 cart in one of the boxes if anyone wants it.
regarding the at cart.
The cliff drop-off is where the test record ended. ;-)
Unfortunately, the DL-103 and 103R have conical styli with massive cantilevers, so they do not respond well to high frequencies beyond 20-kHz.
Understood. But why the downward tilt at ~17 KHz. Your plots (granted, of the103R variant) show the rising high end I would have expected to find).
Look again. My plots are also tilted down after 17-kHz. They start to rise after 7-kHz, but they begin to roll off after 17-kHz. Their massive cantilever and stylus places their cantilever bending resonance around 17-kHz and they roll off after that.
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Here is a comparison of the massive DL-103R stylus and cantilever compared to the lower-mass stylus/cantilever system of the DL-S1. Both pictures were taken with the same magnification.
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The flattest frequency response curve I ever measured was from the Dynavector XV-1. It was flat from 20-Hz to 20-kHz ±1-dB.
There's no correlation between your plot of the 103R and the one that came with my 103. No rise after 7 KHz. No rise period.
I've never measured a DL-103. I've only measured a DL-103R and a DL-103SA. I've never used a chart recorder and a sweep frequency test record to measure frequency response. My measurements were made from RIAA equalized spot frequencies through my phono stage whereas the plot supplied with your cartridge was made with a constant velocity sweep without RIAA equalization. Therefore, you are correct: There is no correlation between my measurements and the plot supplied with your cartridge.
My measurements reveal how my DL-103R performs in my system through my Pass Labs XOno phono stage. Your plot was done in a laboratory without RIAA equalization and therefore does not show how the cartridge performs in your system. That is the main reason I make my own frequency response and crosstalk measurements -- so I know how all my cartridges perform in my own stereo system.
Best regards,
John Elison
Those ruler-flat charts that come with (some) cartridges are silly and pointless. Nothing to do with you or your charts. Believe it or not, this isn't about you.
"this isn't about you"
I suggest that would be more obvious were you to make an effort to not come off as such a miserable snot.
How you could post that nasty comment about one of the nicest guys here is beyond me.
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nt
As the saying goes, takes one to know one :-)Are we having fun yet
I'd probably come off as more warm and cuddly but i'm watching the World Series and just checking in between innings.
Edits: 10/22/14
You used to receive and individual measurement with the high end cartridges like this one, i have for my empire :)
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
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