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To all who have gotten the Beatles Mono Box or individual MMT and have heard the Horzu MMT, is the Mono Re-issue better, worse or just different? I have the BC-13 box and the Horzu MMT. Do I need to get the Mono MMT? Is it essential or definitive? or just nice to have. Just trying to best allocate my limited record buying dollars.
Follow Ups:
Just did an A-B with Horzu stereo & new mono box set MMT. I asked my wife to participate & didn't tell her which was stereo & which was mono. It was no contest. She shot me a, "isn't it obvious?", kinda look shortly into it. Really, no contest, and I love the Horzu true stereo, but the mono trounced the horzu. Mono had big, wide, full sound stage; deep, deep bass; better detail, & no weak middle. It's mono up to abbey & let it be, IMHO. Always valued the Horzu true stereo, esp "baby, you're a rich man", which has bass to die for, but the mono has all the bass & definitely more, IMO.
Jim
"If less is more, just think how much more more would be!" - Frasier Crane.
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Russco Studio Pro B/Syntec S220/Empire 2000E/3-Technics SL1210mkII/DL103R/Yam C-6 pre-Yam M-4 amp-KLH 6 spkrs-Outlaw sub
side one; "I Am the Walrus". And if they were able to clean out some of the hash.
Every version I've ever heard of this track, Capitol Lp, Capitol 45, Horzu, radio; AM / FM....it sounds like there have been so many over-dubs that multiple layers of light hash is inter-woven into the mix.
-Steve
Just compared to IATW Horzu stereo to box set mono. IMO the mono sounds more impactful b/c of mono mix, but also cleaner, if you will. Now, of course, this is a high effects track, John's voice throughout, & all kinds of other stuff thrown in the pot, but on the new mono, the effects sound like individual effects, not so much of a hash as you say. The background voices are really good, too, "OOO-Oooo-ooh", very full & like they were put thru some kind of Leslie effect. Strings are great & Ringos drums are dynamic w/bass drum sounding punchier & more well defined. Also listened to orig UK Parlophone 7" EP 45rpm mono version. Though it has age & wear issues, clearly the new pressing used the orig mono master & sought to present the orig musical "intention", as Berkowitz & Magee, project supervisor & mastering engineer, put it. An insanely good value at the price. JMHO.
I played all versions on my Nott Horizon with ADC XLMII, Boozhound phono pre, Yam C6 preamp/M4 amp, & KLH 6 spkrs.
Jim
"If less is more, just think how much more more would be!" - Frasier Crane.
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Russco Studio Pro B/Syntec S220/Empire 2000E/3-Technics SL1210mkII/DL103R/Yam C-6 pre-Yam M-4 amp-KLH 6 spkrs-Outlaw sub
Thanks for the comparison, Jim.
I've ordered the MMT mono. I imagine it will be my goto for this album.
-Steve
I would love to get the mono box but that's a hefty price. If I did then I would want a mono cart to go along with it and I don't have that many mono albums in my collection. I'd also want a second armwand for my Moerch so I wouldn't have to fiddle with setting up cartridges constantly. Yikes! Heck, at some point in the near future I'm going to need a set of 300B's, those aren't cheap either.
I should go to one of my local Goodwills and buy a cheap system and sell what I have so I can afford the new turntable setup and Beatles monos. Expensive hobby.
All are dead flat and mostly quiet (Revolver has a few pops but acceptable for sure). And the sound is stellar as folks have said.
On my Hagerman cornet, seems to work pretty good for the few mono albums I have. Think I'm going to spring for a couple albums next week and see how they sound. Imagine they will be a lot better than my Blue Box.
it is already mono. same signal will come out left and right. no need to sum them. better not to, in fact.
Only the music is in mono. Any clicks and pops and other groove noise is in stereo. Therefore, if you want to hear all the groove noise in mono, you need to use the mono switch.
Best regards,
John Elison
all these disks are flat and quiet.
i have tried the mono switch on my preamp vs a mono cart unsummed as well as mono records played /w stereo cartridge unsummed and my preference is to not use that mono switch.
there may be a technical reason underlying this preference but soundwise the mono switch tends to dull the presentation.
> There may be a technical reason underlying this preference but soundwise the mono switch tends to dull the presentation.
You probably own a very expensive stereo cartridge in which the manufacturer has purposely asymmetrically damped the cantilever to create interchannel phase shift in an effort to enhance the soundstage. I owned a Dynavector XV-1 that was built that way and every time I activated the mono switch on a mono record, the cymbals and high-frequencies dropped down about 3-dB. It was very annoying and I finally got rid of the cartridge. Harry Weisfeld said he has encountered a lot of expensive cartridges built like that when he conducts Lissajous pattern oscilloscope tests that are supposed to produce a 45-degree line but produce ovals or circles instead. That's one reason I don't have much use for any cartridge that costs more than $1000. All my cartridges perform just fine when I activate the mono switch because they are built correctly and exhibit negligible interchannel phase shift all the way out to 20-kHz.
Best regards,
John Elison
i have a Denon DL-102 and DL-103R. the 102 is a mono cart and is very lively going thru a Jolida JD-9. The 103 now goes thru a Hagerman Bugle. I previously used a Cornet which had a mono switch. Most expensive cartridge i've owned was the Ortofon Black.
So, which cartridge sounds dull with a mono switch? If it's the DL-102, then you definitely have a problem with your phono stage containing the mono switch because there should be no difference in sound one way or the other with that cartridge. A stereo cartridge with significant interchannel phase shift in the upper frequencies will sound dull when using a mono switch because the phase shift causes a reduction in high frequency output when the two channels are blended together. With asymmetrical cantilever damping, phase shift normally begins around 1000-Hz and gradually increases with frequency. This can occur with any stereo cartridge, but I've only measured it on my old Dynavector XV-1. All my other cartridges work just fine.
Best regards,
John Elison
it occured /w my 103 on the Cornet. no matter because i use the 102 now.
Absolutely. I had the Blue Box (sold it) and don't remember being wowed like I have been with this mono box set. I also have four or five orig Beatles Parlophone monos for comparison. I will still play those but much less often. Far less.
As others pointed out, these aren't like mono records cut in the mono era where truly the best playback requires a true mono cartridge. You'll be plenty satisfied using your normal setup...especially if you are a Beatles fan.
nt
Much less a second set-up for mono, but I absolutely love these new reissues. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. The set-up you have is good enough for your stereo records, it's good enough for these mono records. Buy a couple. If you enjoy them buy some more.
Buy one or two individual albums each month. The book is nice, but not necessary to enjoy the music. The vinyl is so absolutely quiet that they sound fantastic with a stereo cart. No mono cart required.
That's what I was thinking since they are available, I didn't realize they were available separately. Start with Rubber Soul and Revolver and go from there. The 3 disc masters version is also available and I would definitely want that.
On Monday I will be able to do the same A-B as you just did. As you said, the Horzu stereo version of Baby You're a Rich Man is so good that if the box version is better, well then, that is money well spent. I can't wait!
It is better. You're gonna love this set. I've got all the orig UK monos, and Berkowitz & Magee did this right. May be best vinyl versions, ever.
Jim
"If less is more, just think how much more more would be!" - Frasier Crane.
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Russco Studio Pro B/Syntec S220/Empire 2000E/3-Technics SL1210mkII/DL103R/Yam C-6 pre-Yam M-4 amp-KLH 6 spkrs-Outlaw sub
Thanks jazzthusiast for the extremely helpful reply. Sounds like a no brainer! I guess I'll have to spring for the Mono MMT. From everything else I've seen posted, such as over at SH Forums, the Mono sounds great. But, the acid test (so to speak), is the A-B with the holy grail, Horzu version. If it's better than that, it's the best. MMT is still my favorite, despite what Mikey says!
You're welcome. Gotta love Sean Magee's (mastering engineer on new mono box set) take on working with beatles mono. The whole clip is interesting, but 4:29 on is relevant to his experience & philosophy regarding working with the mono masters...
Regards,
Jim
"If less is more, just think how much more more would be!" - Frasier Crane.
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Russco Studio Pro B/Syntec S220/Empire 2000E/3-Technics SL1210mkII/DL103R/Yam C-6 pre-Yam M-4 amp-KLH 6 spkrs-Outlaw sub
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