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In Reply to: RE: VTA AT 440MLA posted by Paully on August 30, 2014 at 10:28:58
Hi,
I suggest starting out with the top of the cart parallel to the record surface, you can tweak that as you go. You should also start out with VTF set at, or near maximum. Capacitance load is critical for ATs - it should be < 200pF total. 150pF seems optimal. That's capacitance of preamp + all arm wires. With a Souther you can fit low capacitance cables.
That cart seems to have an extra long break-in. I don't know why. If response is too bright you can change the resistance load to 32K by using parallel resistors. In this case it's 100K. That should do the trick.
The 440 will accept the 150MLX stylus which will transform the cart. With it, you'll probably go back to 47K and pick up detail and finesse.
note: some people like the 440 @ 47K. I guess it depends on your system/taste.
neo
BIRD LIVES
Follow Ups:
Rather like putting a Shure V15VxMR stylus on an M97 body, whilst the ATN150MLX stylus will physically fit, it is not an ideal match to the 440ML body. The inductance of the AT150MLX body is 350mH (compared to 490mH for the AT440) and the damping factor is lower. It will work almost perfectly in an AT100E body which has the correct inductance but a slightly higher DC resistance but the increase in damping is negligible on the final result. The electrical resonance is at ~19.1kHz compared to 16.2kHz on the 440ML body.
It might *sound* OK, but the response will not be as flat as it would otherwise be on the correct body. You will have an early rolloff and very likely a somewhat lumpy response in the 15-18kHz region.
Examining the white noise responses for the AT440ML and AT100E (including AT100/150MLX) show very similar response characteristics ie a slight hump of ~1dB in the 12kHz region with a 47k/200pF load.
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
your nose to spite your face, but it might be counterproductive?
I don't own an M97, but I've seen the graphs and read many user reports. The stock cart is optimally loaded at 62K, 250pF for flatter response. The Jico SAS stylus (boron/microridge) is a popular upgrade for those seeking more of a "high end" sound. Response is flatter and more detailed/extended and users go back to 47K load. What's the problem with this, the stylus costs more than the cart? The inductance is wrong for the stylus?
That's what is stated for the ATs:
> The inductance of the AT150MLX body is 350mH (compared to 490mH for the AT440) and the damping factor is lower. It will work almost perfectly in an AT100E body which has the correct inductance but a slightly higher DC resistance but the increase in damping is negligible on the final result. The electrical resonance is at ~19.1kHz compared to 16.2kHz on the 440ML body. <
> It might *sound* OK, but the response will not be as flat as it would otherwise be on the correct body. You will have an early rolloff and very likely a somewhat lumpy response in the 15-18kHz region. <
Sorry, you're completely wrong. There is no early rolloff. Response is more extended due to a lighter/stiffer cantilever resonating at a higher frequency. Electrical resonance doesn't have much to do with it. It's nonsense. Electrical resonance function is to lower the high frequency resonance. In Werner's M97 TNT article 250pF had to be maintained to keep HFR in the range where it augments response in the treble droop region. With lower capacitance, response is more extended but droop is worse.
I also never tried a beryllium/LC on a high inductance AT-13 motor. It's something like 900 - 1000mH. Users report superb results.
I do have other various AT MMs, and a beryllium or boron/ML on a 440 is a serious upgrade, although custom loading could still apply.
neo
BIRD LIVES
Defensive much? Relax!
I just pointed out that the ATN150MLX is not an ideal match to the 440 body given identical load conditions... which is a fact. If not, AT would have the same body for both and just add the extra cosmetics to justify the higher cost.
Changing the load impedance has the effect of altering the frequency response. If that isn't altering the electrical resonance with respect to the cartridge inductance, then I don't know what is!
Perhaps you would be kind enough to rectify my ignorance by providing an explanation for AT specifying different electrical characteristics for the corresponding bodies? Poor process control? Marketing? Or could it be that, given the higher mechanical resonance of the boron cantilever (which you correctly note), they need to lift the electrical resonance to achieve a maximally flat response....
Peace!
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
> I just pointed out that the ATN150MLX is not an ideal match to the 440 body given identical load conditions... which is a fact. If not, AT would have the same body for both and just add the extra cosmetics to justify the higher cost. <
It's nonsense. The 440 has the same generator as the 155LC, 152MLP, and the 160ML, among others. 490mH, 790/3200 ohms. They came with beryllium cantilevers while the 140LC and 142LP (same motor) have aluminum.
The fact of the matter is, if you load the cart at 47K/ <200pF, response is dramatically better with the exotic cantilevered stylus. If you ever tried it you wouldn't post such statements.
neo
BIRD LIVES
Bahahahahaa!!! You're so funny!
Show me the measurements. Don't quote other people. Show us that you actually know what you're talking about!
You really are clueless!!
OK we're done here....
Regards Anthony
"Beauty is Truth, Truth Beauty.." Keats
I will definitely think about the stylus upgrade on down the line. I was thinking there was no straight edge on top because there is the sloping part of the cartridge but there is a straight line at the back of it now that I really look. I will use that and just align it the best I can. Thanks!
I have had mine for quite awhile...did take some breaking in..vta on mine was to what sounded best after a few adjustments. this cart puts out a wide, deep and high sound stage. i will look to the 150MLX when i get ready to update...
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