|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
99.232.76.29
Today I mounted this loaner from a friend, the Benz Ruby Z. I have it mounted to an Audiomods arm.
The first thing I did was mount it in a neutral position in the headshell (aligned front face and sides). Then set the VTF to 2.0g. After alignment using the MintLP tractor I went to set the anti-skating and this is where things started to get weird:
I could not set the anti-skate so the arm stayed steady on a blank record. Not only could I not steady it, but even with the highest setting of AS, the arm still swung quickly towards the spindle.
After a few records some serious skipping was happening - not just into the next groove but almost an entire song! At this point I rechecked everything and noticed that I didn't lock the counterweight which slid back to give a VTF of 1.3g. After adjustment to 2.2g it was better, but records of known good condition were still causing a jump.
I tried adding a 7g shim to the headshell and recalibrating all parameters and still the distortion/mistracking/jumping persists. At times the distortion is in the right channel, other times it jumps towards the spindle (sometimes one groove over and other times two or more).
I think I've created some groove damage of two vintage records (A Scott Hamilton on Concorde, and a Hawai'ian "Sunday Manoa" on Panini), my limited experience in vinyl just took a lesson.
Any ideas of what is happening? How to correct this?
Opinions don't affect facts. But facts should affect opinions, and do, if you're rational..
- Ricky Gervais, 2012
Follow Ups:
The right channel is recorded in the outer groove wall. If you have good tracking force and skating force much greater than anti-skating, the stylus may have insufficient force against the outer groove wall and this will cause mistracking in the right channel. You can increase the mass of the anti-skating weight by adding slotted washers on top of the existing weight.
Which Audiomods arm do you have? Can you post photos showing the arrangement of the anti-skating thread in its support? Also photos showing the counterweight assembly, at the Audiomods site it appears interesting. What shims and screws are you using with the counterweight?
A stylus can jump across the record if there is a lot of structure-borne feedback getting into the table and arm and you play at high volume. Does the jumping occur if you play at low volume, or no volume?
Thanks for the response, David. It's the Series 5 arm.
I've since removed the Benz and replaced it with another cartridge. I'm going to try mounting it again this evening - only this time with more mass and a higher VTF. I will take the photos you've requested and post if I have more trouble.
What I can tell you about the setup on Friday...
(VTA such that the cartridge top is parallel to playing surface for all)
First:
2g shim, heavy counterweight, 1.3g VTF (accidentally), max antiskate (quadrant on the screw hole further from the pivot, and quadrant turned to provide the longest moment-arm with the cartridge at the inner groove).
Crazy groove jumping across an entire song.
Second:
Adjusted VTF to 2.2g.
No crazy jumping, but still distortion in right channel and skipping forwards a groove or two. Removing the anti-skate made it worse.
Third:
Removed 2g shim, added 7g shim, lighter counterweight (couldn't achieve correct VTF with heavy weight), 2.2g VTF, calibrated the AS but still had to keep it at max.
Settled down, but still had right channel distortion and an odd skip.
Fourth:
Put the Ruby away.
The odd thing is that a vintage RCA of The Four Seasons tracked perfectly - the whole record, as did a 1980s Ladysmith Black Mambazo LP. They both played without any detectable distortion or skipping.
What's also bizarre is that te owner of the cart has used it on a Reed (15g) and a Breuer (8g?) at 2.5g VTF with no issues.
Opinions don't affect facts. But facts should affect opinions, and do, if you're rational..
- Ricky Gervais, 2012
I would not use a blank record heard bad things. What about azimuth if you are getting distortion in one channel or the other. Im not a pro i have an sme 10A table which is an easy set setup.
Could there be a possible mismatch of arm weight and cartridge compliance? Relatively lightweight arm and low compliance cartridge could cause jumping provoked by small record warps.
I added a 7g shim to the headshell. The dancing stopped, but there was still some distortion in the right channel. There were certain tracks where the needle would skip out of the groove and jump forward.
Opinions don't affect facts. But facts should affect opinions, and do, if you're rational..
- Ricky Gervais, 2012
Edits: 07/19/14
I would like to add the thought that some believe setting antiskate on a blank track provides false information and can cause stylus damage when the antiskate acceleration suddenly stops at one side or the other.
In other words, the way that a stylus reacts to the vector forces caused by the cartridge being skewed to the path of rotation can't be tested properly with a blank track.
As others have suggested, do all of your setup with anti-skate off and as verified with the tonearm remaining where placed doing a neutral float.
After everything is dialed in, apply a bit of antiskate if desired. With my P9, I set the antiskate for about the same as the tracking weight, maybe a bit less. Then, when the stylus drops into the lead in groove, using a flashlight look to see if at that point the stylus is pulled one way or the other. If not, you're good to go.
I would recommend balancing the arm so the stylus floats just above the record surface and observe how the tonearm moves across the record with antiskating turned off. It should remain fairly stationary at any point across the record. Then, apply antiskating and see if the arm swings back toward the arm-rest when released in the middle of the record. That would show that your antiskating mechanism is working.
On the other hand, even if your antiskating mechanism is disabled and not working, it doesn't seem like your tonearm should skip grooves when playing a record. I'm thinking that maybe the tonearm wiring is twisted in such a way that it is causing the arm to skate inward. However, this will be apparent in the test above if the arm floats briskly inward to the spindle even when antiskating is disabled. In that case, the tonearm wiring needs to be loosened and untwisted.
I can't think of anything else at the moment. I hope you solve the problem.
Good luck,
John Elison
The AS works fine. Without the AS the arm floats in the same spot no matter where over the platter it's placed. When the AS is engaged, the arm drifts towards the rest.
Opinions don't affect facts. But facts should affect opinions, and do, if you're rational..
- Ricky Gervais, 2012
It sounds to me like the problem might be with the cartridge. Perhaps it has a broken stylus or cantilever. If you have another cartridge, I would recommend installing it to confirm your turntable and tonearm are operating properly and then send the Benz Ruby in for inspection and repair.
I hope you figure this out.
Good luck,
John Elison
Good. So looks like it's fine.I would suggest finish but start with no anti-skate. Remember a lot of people run without AS by choice which simply means it's not very destructive. I've run without at times, e.g. if prob, don't notice much diff either way.
-
What is your arm exactly, I don't know "Audiomods arm".
Never trust an Atom, they Make Up everything!
Edits: 07/19/14
see link:
Opinions don't affect facts. But facts should affect opinions, and do, if you're rational..
- Ricky Gervais, 2012
Sure doesn't look like a mismatch for yours Benz. I think its fine else a AS issue which case you can run off til addressed.
Never trust an Atom, they Make Up everything!
Benz recommends 470-47K. Yesterday we went from 100 to 1K to 10K and it sounded better with each loading change. It's all a bit blurry today as there was some beer in play yesterday, I can't recall if things got worse as the loading value increased because we did try VTF changes and effective mass changes to the arm over the course of the procedures.
Opinions don't affect facts. But facts should affect opinions, and do, if you're rational..
- Ricky Gervais, 2012
I've had the Ruby H, Ruby 2 and now the Ruby 3. With a Pass Xono and McIntosh C500T, loading is best between 500 and 1Kohm. I've run it extensively at 47Kohm and occasionally at 25ohms (when I forget to reset the C500T loading after plugging it back in). I've never experienced what you describe. The sound changes, but tracking ability doesn't seem impacted. I have a Basis 2001, Graham 2.2 arm.
I'd second John's suggestion of trying a different cartridge if possible. Best of luck.
Relax, have Sprecher Commando and listen to some Johnny Winter...
I mounted a DV 20XL after removing the Ruby Z and didn't experience the AS problems or mistracking or groove jumping. It tracked perfectly.
My pal that was over on Friday took the Ruby with him to have a look at it under his microscope:
Stylus looks clean with minimal wear.
Zenith looks off a bit.
Azimuth might be off as well.
But, I wouldn't think that these small imperfections would cause the problems I'm having. Then again, that's just my guess.
Opinions don't affect facts. But facts should affect opinions, and do, if you're rational..
- Ricky Gervais, 2012
The stylus appears to be wearing evenly but those flats look pretty long to me, which might indicate significant wear. Zenith looks okay to me, though. I've seen much worse. Check the cantilever to see if it might be cracked or damaged in some way. If not, perhaps the elastic suspension damper has hardened. There's got to be some reason it's not tracking properly.
Good luck,
John Elison
Thanks, John. I'll give this a try in the AM.
Opinions don't affect facts. But facts should affect opinions, and do, if you're rational..
- Ricky Gervais, 2012
I suppose you've checked that the arm is completely free in motion...not being dragged by the wire, bumping into something etc.... have you checked azimuth (is the cartridge leaning if looked head on... Is the cartridge in good, playable condition, or in mounting it, did you bend the stylus, etc. ..try playing the record with no anti-skate....it sounds better that way anyway...never use a/s on my rig.
Thanks dude.
The problem was MARKEDLY worse with the AS disengaged.
The Ruby is brand new and has 10 hours, borrowed from a pal that takes great care of his gear (all mucho dinero stuff). Prior to mounting we used a mag loupe to look at this thing of beauty and the cantilever 'might' be very slightly off-centre and it's very difficult for me to see if the azimuth is true or not - but the tip isn't pointing noticeably away from 'south' if you know what I mean?
The tonearm cable exits the bottom of the mounting post and is secured with a strain relief system. Moving the tonearm in all planes is easy with no restrictions.
The physical setup of TT/tonearm is unmoved, literally, since removing the Colibri last week and installing the Ruby today. The TT was under a full dustcover, and the tonearm was tied to the arm-rest with a twistie (just a habit after a very bad cat experience).
Opinions don't affect facts. But facts should affect opinions, and do, if you're rational..
- Ricky Gervais, 2012
I have seen a number of Benz cartridges and they are made well and not even "slightly"off center. I would send this cartridge back to Musical Soundings and have them check it. ...and here's probably the very best tip you will ever get... NEVER say "Dude" again for the rest of your life.
Keep a cool tool, dude.
I assume you've checked that every part of the turntable is perfectly level? (base/platter/arm support...)
I used three different levels. One was digital, another was the bubble supplied by Benz.
Opinions don't affect facts. But facts should affect opinions, and do, if you're rational..
- Ricky Gervais, 2012
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: