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Very interesting comparison
Follow Ups:
Well I though that low level detail, especially the low strings, was better on B.
But then my daughter (whom I enlisted) thought A was more "explosive".
Then I though A was more "explosive".
Then she wasn't sure.
Then I wasn't sure.
LOL
---
So I'm going with not sure with excuse that my DAC (16/48 capable max) no good enough to distinguish, or too close to call ... or something like that.
LOL
Never trust an Atom, they Make Up everything!
I am curious. Assuming that the recording was done directly from phono pre output then the volume difference would be entirely 2nd to the arm?
Very strange, but I also prefer A over B even when turning volume for B up.
I don't know how to normalized volume on my desktop computer though.
Via iMac and Audio Technica ATH-AD700 phones. Very close, though.
I listened to both tracks twice in an A-B-A-B order. I am using a desktop Mac computer and HK computer speakers (cheap, IOW). To my ears, sample A was unquestionably better than sample B, but I also think that the gain level was higher for sample A, which always tends to create a listener bias. After making my choice, I was very surprised to read so many posted comments favoring sample B. To me, B was less dynamic, less clarity in the bass. "A" had more air, more depth, as well as superior bass clarity.
I have a dac hooked up to my main system for listening to Spotify. Nothing fancy but can do 192/24. A is far clearer more dynamic has better space. B is congested and grainy compared to A. B has some sort of IM distortion that would grade on your nerves after a while :). Electrostats don't make things sound pretty if they are not pretty to start with, but you know that all too well.dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
Edits: 04/24/14
So you used a much much better playback system, but you reached the same conclusion as I, and for many of the same reasons. Does that mean that these crappy HK desktop computer speakers of mine are actually good?
On the other hand, Dave used an excellent pair of headphones, also far superior to my HK speakers, and he disagrees with both of us, preferring B. It's enough to shake your world. And in the end, one's preference may have to do with differences in gain between the two.
so i do not think the level difference was the determining factor for me. I was listening for the space in the recording. A sounded a lot more delineated and open, maybe not as balanced as B, but B sounded more washed together. As i said there was some sort of grungy overlay to B, that made it difficult to hear the instrumental separation, some halls have that effect when you get real strong multi path echoes and the leading and trailing edges of sounds get washed together.
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
The split vote does suggest that buying the $$$ armtube may not make a whole lot of sense as a practical matter. Assuming you can really tell anything via your computer's sonics.
I think if one is looking at it from a value point of view, the 3D is not the way to go. A stainless steel armwand is less than half the price. The 3D is also very lightweight and may not be a good match for some cartridges.For some folks, price is no object and with a proper matching cart, the 3D is a nice option.
Edits: 04/26/14
This is where dealers should come in, if you can find one. Assuming that the 3d wand will go with any VPI base, then a dealer should have a demo that he can send home with good clients for a weekend testdrive.
Tom Collins
Normalized
First tried Beyerdynamic 300 ohm phones and two sources.
Playing from computer and Tascam US 322, B sounded marginally better than A.
Playing from Tascam DA-3000, A was clearly better than B.
Then music server, Audio Note DAC and Maggie IIIas. Again, A was better.
Because A sounded tight and constrained to me.
Played through my computer's sound card and crappy speakers, I really can't make a meaningful comparison. I would expect that the subtle differences between the two arms would be lost when played through an "average" computer playback system like mine.
.
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
hey.
are they level matched?
One commenter claimed a 3dB difference.
dave
A is louder.
After normalizing them both a lot of the audible differences disappeared.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
WTF? If 'A' is between 2dB and 3dB louder than 'B' is the "test" rigged, is it designed to stir up controversy, or is Fremer just incompetent?
Cheers,
Al
"....or is Fremer just incompetent?"
Good question.
Tre'
Have Fun and Enjoy the Music
"Still Working the Problem"
the emperor's clothes ?
But, maybe s a more legitimate question would be, exactly what changed between the 2 recordings? If he touched nothing on the ADC chain, where did the 2 DB difference come from, did he use the exact same cartridge on both arms or two different cartridges of the same make and model, was the same wiring in both arms, etc...??
If I was him I would not consider this a definitive test unless all the factors other than the arm itself were under strict control. Hell i do not even care what the whole test is, i just liked file A better :).
To His credit, both were setup very well, and sounded good :).
dee
;-D
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
As I wrote above, I too had the (subjective) impression that A was recorded at a higher level. I also preferred A to B, maybe for that reason.
File A is about 2dB louder than file B.
File A Average RMS power: L -22.8 dB, R -24.1 dB
File B Average RMS power: L -25.0 dB, R -25.9 dB
Definately file "A" . I can really make out the hall size and a more natural instumental timber as well.
Paul
agree with A....we'll see. I'm listening on crappy powered speakers plugged into my Mac. I'd like to hear the difference on my big system.... I have a 3D arm and had a 10.5, in my system the 3D is significantly better.
no questions
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.
quote by Kurt Vonnegut
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