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Hello people,
After hearing good reports on the new series of digitally remastered Blue Notes, I wanted to hear for myself. I bought a copy of Blue Train since I wanted to compare it with a United Artist reissue (1973-76) that I have.
The copy I bought is visually perfect, shiny and flat. I gave it a listen and it sounded clean with no ticks or pops. I dug out my UA Blue Note copy and the difference between the two was amazing. The UA BN had sound stage and depth. The new BN was flat and the sound was bunched up in between my speakers. The musicians sounded as if they were on top of each other. The UA BN had a much better lateral spread. Chambers was in his own space, not on top of Coltrane. The new BT was lifeless. It lacked dynamics compared to the UA BN. Lee sounded meek and one dimensionl while the UA had bite, dynamics and speed. It's Lee on the attack like it should be. Coltrane also had his own 3D space, not just pasted flat on top of Chambers and the other musicians. His horn had strength and soul. I can go on and bore you guys but you get the idea.
I almost bought Dolphy's Out to Lunch. Good thing I didn't. IMO the new Blue Train reissue was a waste of $21. I can only wonder how the original BN would sound. Maybe one day...
Follow Ups:
the pressing is superb, so there goes my knock against the pressing company! The sound, well, it just seems flat and lacks excitement compared to some of my BN white/blue Liberties, as well as other reissues I have. Not true for all the reissues I have, a number of them are also fairly flat and less-than-exciting. One BN I have just explodes out of the speakers, and from what I have read, this is actually the norm for most NY BN. If that is indeed the case, I can see why so many people are willing to pay for the better NY and Classic/MM reissues, it can make a huge difference. So now it seems like these new ones may be relegated to buyer-beware status as the better reissues can be had for similar and or a little more money, with a much bigger payoff soundwise...
BTW, I found a UA Blue Note copy of Kenny Dorham's Trompeta Toccata at Jerry's today. Label 3ex on Ron Penndorf's labelography site. "Van Gelder" in the deadwax, VG+ visual condition, probably will play one grade better.
Seven bucks. Sometimes you get lucky.
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The little old ladies wait in wild anticipation for the meetings of the Double-A-C-ASSN...
Edits: 04/18/14
a blue/white Liberty pressing, what a difference! The whole band is so lively sounding and blows away the 75th away! I would say that the high end is more present, whereas the 75th is rolled off....
I'll have to search that one out...thx.
I just got my "Free For All" but haven't played it yet. My gut feeling was that these new reissues were not going to make the grade, it is unfortunate as I was hoping to get many of the issues that I lack in the BN catalog. It seems that the way to go is the Liberty/UA pressings from the '70s, I have some that are just unbelievable sounding (jackie mac swing, swang, swinging), and some that are a bit dead sounding (jackie mac action! action! action!) I am still able to get these issues at around $10-20 in vg+ to nm on occasion, but hard to find the sonny clark stuff. (did get cool strutting and idle moments..) I find it damn hard to understand that when classic did their issues, they were top notch, and the King reissues are said to be even better than the Lexington originals, wtf, can't anyone else get this right?
That's the key.
Examples? Freddie Hubbard's Here to Stay which is a two-record set which includes his classic Hub Cap . Remastered by Michael Cuscuna, dull and flat-sounding compared to the earlier versions (but still worth having because it's one of Hubbard's classic albums).
There's a reissue UA reissue series, white jackets with a grey border along the top, also flat and dull sounding by comparison to the older stuff.
The OP in this thread definitely wasted his $21. If I had a UA or Liberty copy of Blue Train , I'd never have bought one of the new reissues.
The way I look at the reissues is, you get what you can get. I have a list of about 30 titles from the new series, records I want bad. Most of them won't come out until next year. I have till then to find Van Gelder copies. If I can't get the Rudy, I'll settle for Don Was.
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The little old ladies wait in wild anticipation for the meetings of the Double-A-C-ASSN...
while the RVG stamp is much prized (and for good reason), the ron Pendorff essay would indicate that several reissues do merit listening to, including the one you mentioned, 55. But he is particularly drawn to the King reissues, and that could be explained that 1) Japanese remastering and record making in general have been of higher quality than US record making, and (2 the cutting equipment took a huge jump up in ability in 1968 when the Neumann lathes became available, allowing more high frequencies to be cut into the lacquer. I would also think that the Classic reissues, because of the care they use (and my (relatively small) experience with their classical reissues) would be excellent sounding. The RVG stamp, as noted in the pendorff essay, particularly for the later pressings, could in some ways actually work against the record as that would indicate the use of an old stamper that could be well past usability or optimal sound quality...
But they're getting expensive, too. I looked at Buy It Now prices on Ebay this morning, for Blue Train . There's a King on there, not cheap.
I've only got one Classic Blue Note, Cannonball Adderley's Something Else . Classic reversed the channels, IIRC. Other than that it sounds pretty good, lots of punch, but I actually prefer the DMM copy. It just sounds more balanced to me, it's a better mix than the DMM Blue Train .
Analogue Productions and Music Matters take great care with their reissues. The pressing quality is excellent, packaging, etc. The problem is that we're getting farther down the chain from how these records were originally mastered and mixed. You buy Music Matters, you get Blue Note as interpreted by Kevin Grey, for example.
For what it's worth, I agree with Sidewinder about that the new reissues can't hold a candle to New York, Liberty, UA, King, etc. but they're cheaper and for 20 bucks they're pretty good. There are a lot of very rare titles getting reissued, too, records you're not likely to find any other copies of. For that if nothing else, I'm happy with this series.
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The little old ladies wait in wild anticipation for the meetings of the Double-A-C-ASSN...
they aren't pressing any more Van Gelder Blue Notes. In my opinion, none of the reissues are as good as the Van Gelder stuff but those old New York/Liberty/UA pressings are getting more expensive and harder to find.
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The little old ladies wait in wild anticipation for the meetings of the Double-A-C-ASSN...
Wasted $21 too. Snape, crackle, pop on my 75th BN "Free For All" LP and one dead sounding recording. Really, is this the best they can do?
I have the 180g '97 Capitol reissue of BT that I think sounds pretty wonderful, crushes the DMM. I have on the way a blue note, "united artist group, L.A., CA" label perimeter, black note (b/c of the perimeter marking, I'm guessing a little later than yours) that I won on eBay. Looking forward to it. You didn't mention it, so I assume yours is not a "van gelder" (deadwax). I have several black note label BN reissues that used the van gelder stampers.
Jim
"If less is more, just think how much more more would be!" - Frasier Crane.
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Russco Studio Pro B/Syntec S220/Empire 2000E/3-Technics SL1210mkII/DL103R/Yam C-6 pre-Yam M-4 amp-KLH 6 spkrs-Outlaw sub
Yep the black notes/blue labels are still fairly plenty and not bad price wise. And they sound great. Even the non Van Gelder's do. I still grab them whenever I see them.
Yessir. The black note BT that's on the way was had for just over $18. I'm jazzed ; )
Jim
"If less is more, just think how much more more would be!" - Frasier Crane.
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Russco Studio Pro B/Syntec S220/Empire 2000E/3-Technics SL1210mkII/DL103R/Yam C-6 pre-Yam M-4 amp-KLH 6 spkrs-Outlaw sub
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