|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
189.226.202.85
In Reply to: RE: I am sure there is some lesson to be learned posted by Lew on April 13, 2014 at 20:27:31
About two months ago, I saw the last model of the Teres turntable, the Certus 440 direct drive high torque motor without cogging I think at $15,000.00. It is possible to see something about it in this site: http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/
Before the Certus 440, there were other turntables with a Drive Wheel - The Verus II motor.
Well, every time I see a new or improved model of any product of an audio company, automatically they are saying that their products are or were bad.
Belt drive is bad, idler drive is bad and now after more of 40 years direct drive turntables with high torque motors without cogging are better.
But none of these machines at whatever price can eliminate the annoying noise of vinyl records.
Follow Ups:
Then you either need to find some quiet LPs, of which there are many, if not most, both old and new, or... go to another website.
New products or updates of existing products do not indicate that the previous version was "bad" in any way, but I agree it is a ticklish situation for the manufacturer to both market an update and still maintain the excellence of what went before. Usually, "updates" are an indicator that sales of the original were flagging anyway, and the update is done to stimulate new purchases. The owners of the previous version are appeased by making the upgrade available after market, which also generates some revenues. There is nothing new or insidious about this practice. Nor is it unique to the audio business, unless you are still driving a Model A Ford.
In the current marketplace for direct-drive turntables, the Certus might represent a relative bargain, if it is as good as reports would indicate. For those who like vinyl, of course.
His remarks are merely what you'd expect from a digital troll.
Now all we need is for Teresa to show up ;-(
Cheers,
Al
I have over 800 vinyl records since the 60s and they all have more or less noise and many of my favorite albums are quite noisy, for instance The Tokyo Blues of Horace Silver. I bought this album 50 years ago.
Well, last year I bought an "audiophile" version of this album with two discs of 180 grams and 45 rpm. I had to spend $50.00 plus more expensive shipping and customs taxes because I live in Mexico.
The 2 discs are cleaner than the old one but on the 4th track “Cherry Blossom”, there is quite remarkable scratchy noise.
So, I bought an expensive noisy record and I have being buying other new records. All of them with noise, even one with “orange skin”.
Noise and vinyl are always together.
I have an almost new Denon DL-103SA MC cartridge that is perfectly adjusted in all parameters and the stylus obviously is in perfect shape.
I think that is very frustrating that almost no one has the right product and I think also, that this is part of marketing to maintain unsatisfied custumers that continuously buy new “better” things.
For me that I am not a rich man the Certus is not a bargain.
For less than $800.00 I bought a used impeccable Special Edition VPI/Denon DP75 turntable with a high torque direct drive motor without cogging.
The features: Turntable body mounted on a floating heavy and hard plinth made of sandwiched steel, aluminum, lead and wood weighting about 15 kilos and it is over springs on a wood base with aluminum spikes. The total weight of the turntable is around 30 kilos.
With the turntable were included a GST 801 tonearm and a Shure V15 Type V cartridge with broken needle for the same price. I purchased all on eBay winning the auction.
I don’t know if mine is better or not than the Certus and I don’t care.
Curiously the specification of the speed accuracy in the Denon is better than the new DD from VPI at $30,000.00
The Denon is a great piece of engineering I could afford it, but as I wrote before cannot remove noise from my records.
You can't speak the truth about vinyl and noise, it's simply not permitted man!
"Middleground", indeed.
Helpful to what?
I have a Denon DP80, close cousin to the DP75. Mine is mounted in a slate plinth and I use a Dynavector DV505 tonearm on it. I agree those are great tables. I cannot or would not afford a $30K tt, either. But that's beside the point. No one said that you must have a very expensive tt to enjoy vinyl or even to make vinyl "quiet". (A turntable alone can never do that anyway, since most noise is introduced from the LP surface, by the propensity of the cartridge to translate surface noise into signal, or from the phono stage, way ahead of tt noise per se.) If you just don't like vinyl, you should be looking elsewhere for audio pleasure. No point beating on what you seem to feel is a dead horse.
I would like to hear what you consider to be objectionable "noise" on your vinyl system, but that won't happen because we live thousands of miles apart. Certainly your one specific mention of a singular Horace Silver LP does not prove your point. However, I suspect that you are bothered by kinds of noise that the rest of us can ignore in favor of the greater verisimilitude of vinyl compared to the various alternatives. That does not make you a bad person. For you, there is digital.
All of that said, if you told us more about your vinyl reproduction chain, someone here might help you to minimize the noise you find so objectionable.
Hi Lew,
I hope you do not mind my video. The intention is not to bother anyone.
I would write some more reasons why I'm so frustrated with vinyl.
About the "Tokyo Blues” and other albums, I wrote to Jason Marcum of Elusive Disc this:
“Hi Jason,
I am really disappointed with both vinyl albums that have loud pops and ticks.
The first, HORACE SILVER/THE TOKYO BLUES *ANALOGUE PRODUCTIONS/BLUE NOTE has several annoying pops in the second record, side 3 (The Tokyo Blues) after the beginning of the piano solo. A close inspection with a loupe on this vinyl shows something like a small cavity into four grooves and in “Cherry Blossom” (first track of side 4) are many ticks and soft pops but without visible damage.
The second, MFSL 2-316 MICHAEL BRECKER/PILGRIMAGE *MOBILE FIDELITY (2LP) have many ticks and pops on almost all the tracks and I found a scratch of around 6 millimeters on the middle of the first track of disc 1; side 2: “Anagram”.
It is written somewhere in this MoFi album: “…there may be occasional pops or ticks inherent in initial playback, but as the disc is played more, a high-quality stylus will actually polish the grove walls and improve the sound”.
I've never heard anything like that, but if this is true, please send me a list of high-quality cartridges that their needles polish the grooves to take out the noise of many of my old vinyl records.
Anyway, I did not imagine that these expensive audiophile discs would so noisy.
The answer of Jason:
LET’S FACE IT LP'S IN GENERAL ARE PRONE TO PROBLEMS LIKE THESE, IT IS NOT A PERFECT FORMAT. THESE PROBLEMS EVEN THOUGH THEY STILL HAPPEN ARE MUCH LESS FREQUENT THAN IN THE PAST!
Please return your damaged LP’s to Elusive Disc.
Hi is right in part, because it was quite common that defective records with dust and debris were recycled and the “new ones” have noise for this reason.
I am sure that many of my old LPs have this problem and the new records that are not made with virgin vinyl are like those ones, and the cleanest albums that I bought many years ago are from Germany, Italy and Japan. The quality of their vinyl is better than those “audiophile” records.
Well, the defective albums were replaced without cost but the noise of “Cherry Blossom’s” track is practically the same.
Months later I bought also other expensive album hoping that it is clean: Cape Verdian Blues of Horace Silver (2 records, 45 rpm and 180 grams) at $70.00 with some clicks in several tracks and a loud pop.
Someone said to me that a few clicks, pops or scratches are acceptable, because the music on vinyl is so involving that those few noises are not important.
My answer: “Probably you don't want to wear a tailor suit, with all kind of spots. Not even with only 1 or 2 of them. I think you would want to wear an impeccable suit and even more, if it is expensive.
For me, just one single click or pop in a new “audiophile” record of $50.00 or more, is inadmissible and is not for Hi End Audio”
I bought other new records in CD Universe and several of those are with loud pops and clicks. I returned for reposition and the replaced has exactly the same clicks and pops in the same points of the tracks.
These noises came from the master disc and consequently all copies have the same noise and I received too one with "orange peel".
There is no quality control in vinyl manufacturers!
But this is because the most people accept that vinyl is noisy and never make a claim.
Finally in some of those new records I bought of Blue Note, the sound is less natural than the old ones I have and in one it is written that the record comes from the original digital master tapes. So, I have the sound of a compact disc with the noise of vinyl.
Bad luck not, as Jason Marcum said: Let’s face it LP's in general are prone to problems like these, it is not a perfect format.
And I say: Vinyl is noisy, it is the AnoiseLog format.
I am sorry, but I do not understand why many people bother with me if I am saying practically the same of the General Sales Manager of the biggest vinyl store in the world.
Lew, thank you very much for your interest in my problems with vinyl and accept my best regards.
Also, I received yesterday an email from Elusive Disc with the new things they have.
One of those are three titles in reel tape, something like backup copies of the original master recordings at $600.00 each.
Well, I can say now that Hi End Audio does exist, but only in the most expensive format today and only in a few examples.
I think these tapes are not going to last too much.
The links:
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?shva=1#inbox/1456c8ed862828c5
http://www.elusivedisc.com/Groove-Note-180g/products/253/
Hi Lew,
Digital is not the way.
I have an open reel tape deck and my tapes with Dolby B are clean (no noise) with a natural sound and they can convey the emotion of music.
The format is not perfect, but certainly superior to vinyl and digital and it is my reference.
Because of this and what I think about the current formats and hi end audio, I made a video.
Some people, who saw it, were upset and I received insults, mockery and other things that are far away of the matter of what I am saying.
I don´t want to bother anybody, just to say the true about the current formats.
This is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjTQsY8rhaM
Also you can see my equipment in Inmate Systems under the name of CHAFUSTIC.
Thanks and best regards
Trolling?
Do you mean the noise of vinyl records? Yes it is an utter nonsense.
Who is trolling?
"Well, every time I see a new or improved model of any product of an audio company, automatically they are saying that their products are or were bad.
Belt drive is bad, idler drive is bad and now after more of 40 years direct drive turntables with high torque motors without cogging are better.
But none of these machines at whatever price can eliminate the annoying noise of vinyl records."
That is mewling of a brat. You don't like vinyl don't listen to it. But the statement that you made above is simply moronic and the fact that middleground agrees with a statement like that says all that needs to be known about him.
In both cases.
See what I mean?
Run along, there is no noise in the vinyl kingdom...
When into the music, what's a pop & a click here & there ?
If you go to a live concert there's people coughing, sneezing, talking & silently farting ( not to mention more often then not, a shitty sound system.
Nothing is perfect!
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: