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In Reply to: RE: I should be more clear about the sound posted by steven d on March 13, 2012 at 13:05:23
No, you don't need to be more clear, I know exactly what sibilance sounds like. I record voiceovers for three weekly radio shows. I can hear sibilance in my own voice or on certain recordings in my record, tape, and CD collection.
-You note that what you're hearing is associated with vocals, "S" sounds in particular.
-You note that it's observed on both new and used records.
-In addition, it's not present on all recordings.
Everything points to vocal sibilance, which is in the recording itself. If you don't want to believe me and would rather listen to guys tell you it's your speakers, the cartridge, cartridge alignment, groove damage, etc... go right ahead. Ya might as well bang your head against a brick wall for all the good it'll do you though.
It's apparent from several misinformed postings on this thread that some guys have no clue what sibilance really is (I'm not talking about mistracking from too-light VTF). This brief article is worth a quick read:
Follow Ups:
One of the first used record stores I came across is just down the street from where I live. It's called 'Neurotica Records' and that's exactly how I've been feeling in the last two days since i've paid attention to this phenomenon.
I've set the VTA so that the top of the cartridge is level with the record surface - I've brought it up and down to no avail.
I've reduced and increased the tracking force to no avail.
I've re-aligned the cartridge and tightened the screws securely to no avail.
I've washed a few of the (used and older and low cost) suspect older records to no avail.
It would seem that MY problem with THESE particular records is the records themselves. And, as you say, no amount of futzing is going to correct for what I'm hearing.
I have no problem saying that you were right. Though, with all responses I could not just dismiss what the posters were saying because my experiences are still raw in this niche of the hobby. Part of the hobby is growing with experiences like this.
I've returned all settings to where they were before, with the exception of the tracking force now at 1.9g. As Ronco's old slogan goes... SET IT, AND FORGET IT!!
So instead of thinking, "what the f--- is that noise?" now I'm saying "aaah, the beauty of imperfections in vinyl".
BTW, Mr. CactusCowboy, do you file your Jack Johnson albums in your Hawai'ian catergory? just curious.
Steve
You have the right to be offended, and I have the right to offend you. But no one has the right to never be offended.
- Ricky Gervais, 2011
Hi, Steve,
Good to hear that you've found a solution to the "problem". I will add though, that what you're hearing isn't necessarily as good as it gets. For now, certainly, enjoy the music. But over the long run, you may want to improve on the quantity and quality of the sibilance you hear.
I would keep the suggestions from this thread in mind when you have some time to do some more experimenting or are looking at upgrading. What I found over the years is that a fair amount of vocal sibilance I was hearing was not as dramatic or noticeable with changes in cartridges and tonearms and better techniques in alignment and tonearm adjustment. Sibilance can be part of the recording itself but the amount (and maybe more applicable, the quality) of sibilance you hear varies with the system used for playback.
And of course the condition of the album makes a huge difference.
Have fun and enjoy the hobby,
Tom
Hi Steve,
The double checking of settings and everything you've done was good... gotta eliminate all possibilities. I've gone through the same process as well trying to eliminate vocal sibilance. In one case (Belafonte's "Carnegie Hall" LP) I went so far as to try six different cartridges, none of which would eliminate the sibilance. I pretty much resign myself to the fact that it simply exists on some recordings and a guy just has to live with it.
I have a large collection, but do not have any Jack Johnson releases. My comments regarding the differences you hear on the one release (vinyl vs. CD) were merely an educated guess regarding care and lack thereof taken in the mastering of each. I have a little experience with professional recording technique, which I drew from to diagnose the problem cited in your original post.
Hi, Cowboy,
I think that most of us do know what vocal sibilance sounds like as compared to distortion that sounds sibilant. We may be misusing the term though to describe vibrational or resonant distortion caused by interactions of groove/stylus/cartridge/tonearm/etc. On the other hand, if reference is made to sibilant distortion, most of us know just what that sounds like.
Regards,
Tom
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