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In Reply to: RE: Vintage SS Japanese receivers.... the time is past? posted by Mossback on October 16, 2016 at 09:20:47
If you go back to the mid to late 70s,a new Sansui 9090DB receiver cost between 349 and 425 on average.They were not sold in mid level or high end audio stores and this goes for Pioneer and later Marantz as well.
A Pioneer SX-1280 would sell for about 525 to 549.Keep in mind these were what these units sold for because they were sold at discount appliance stores such as Highland Appliance, and Fretter Appliance,Best buy,and J&R music world.There are many more places as well but I mentioned the Michigan based stores.
An Onkyo TX-4500mk2,sold for 750.00 and they didn't discount those because they were sold in mid to high end audio stores.
Now,if you look at the price of the Sansui,Pioneer,Marantz,or whatever,they are fetching buckoo money on the used market where the Onkyo is bringing very little. Who would have thought.
Pioneer,Marantz,and Sansui,all went into making high end products in later years that were sold i exclusive stores.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Follow Ups:
Scott 340B
Harman Kardon TA-260
Fisher 800c
Mikey, I don't get it.
I mean those 70s battleships look cool with their fancy faceplates and all those buttons and knobs, but at the end of the day they are all solid state and sound like it.
Having grown up in the 70s, I have heard countless Marantz, Pioneer, Sansui, Onkyo, and Yamaha receivers paired with all manner of speakers. While they all sound decent, none of them could compete with the units pictured above when it came to producing a holographic, wide & deep sound stage - Just saying.
I guess the 70s receivers can sound OK, but it must be more of a nostalgic thing because the tube receivers from 15 to 20 years earlier (that were built slightly before I was) kill those blingy overly complicated boat anchors of the 70s when it comes to sound - In my opinion....
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
I agree but would add that now you are getting back into the classic good vs. evil, opps I meant tubes vs. SS debate.
At the end of the day I do agree that sound wise the classic 70's receiver was clearly not king of the hill. However it was a niche, a need, a preference, a style or what ever it was. But any way you describe it, it defined 70's audio and that big sound.
If ANYTHING good came out of those receivers it was this. A brief time where companies took pride in their product and were actually TRYING to make a better product than there competitor. Finally the consumer was the winner.
When anyone thinks of 70's audio what do they think of. Those hulking 125 watt monster receivers with all those lights, dials, knobs and 8 dozen filter switches. Even in the movies or TV what do you see on those sets - receivers.
I no longer own any receivers but SS does have a niche as well. It's not vintage or even tubes but I absolutely enjoy and would never give up my new NAD C275BEE power amp. And that's coming from a tube guy!!!
When anyone thinks of 70's audio what do they think of. Those hulking 125 watt monster receivers with all those lights, dials, knobs and 8 dozen filter switches.Never was a receiver guy. My first and last one was an Electrophonic T-600 purchased when I was 13. Two years later, I moved to the AR Integrated which I thought had a clean, functional appearance.
What I lusted for as a teenager was not the "gee-whiz-Wally" sort of stuff you mention. Instead, what I found more impressive was the instrumentation grade appearance of stuff from Audio Research like you would see in the NASA firing room. I remember how cool it was seeing a rack like this:
Still do forty plus years later. :)
Edits: 10/24/16
Where's the on button?
That thing looks like it launches nuclear missiles.
I had more humble dreams. Just a Marantz receiver and Barbara Eden sitting naked in my bean bag chair wearing the Jennie hat.
the amplifier pictured is two thirds of a rare prototype Dual 400 tube amp. The actual rack I saw had a pair of D-76s along with SP-3a and EC-4 crossover.
Click here for more stuff in the ARC library. Scroll down for more pics of the Dual 400.
I've said it before, but my perspective of audio and music reproduction was forever changed in 1974 when I heard tri-amped Tympani III speakers driven by Audio Research gear (Crown DC300A on woofers) at Fat Julian's Audio in Atlanta. I had never heard anything before that approached that level of three dimensional realism.
I'm still a fan of tube driven large planar dipoles. :)
I think that the buyers of these 70's Behemoths are trying to recapture the youth they never had. These are the receivers that they drooled over when they bought their 35 watters. Now that they can afford one, why not? They are great conversation pieces.
The truth be told, I have an Onkyo TX-5000 sitting on the shelf that I bought for next to nothing. I thought it would be a fun project. OK, 65 WPC is not that big, but this thing is physically big and heavy. It really looks the part! As Mike said, they don't seem to be fetching very high prices though!
Dave
I uesed a Onkyo TX-4500mkii in my garage for about a year. And yes it looked the part. I couldn't even begin to list the receivers I've had over the years. but obviously I don't have them anymore.
In the end they was replaced and bested by a string of separates - Sansui AU-7900, Pioneer SA-9500 (oh I hated that amp), McIntosh MA5200 and 6200, Onkyo CA810 and 610 and a few dozen I've long since forgotten about.
However I was realizing even then that my taste leaned towards tubes.
I finally stayed with and loved the Scott 299c (or was it b?) which disappeared from my garage one summer day believe it or not!!!!
But today I would say it goes on a case by case basis. Some SS is good while the vast majority you couldn't even give me. Also don't forget there are also crappy tube amps out there as well.
Pioneer,Marantz,and Sansui,all went into making high end products in later years
Musta missed out on all the Pioneer and Sansui "high end" products. :)
Yes, Saul made some really nice tube stuff in prior years.
I recall listening to a killer Class A amp by pioneer. Sansui had some tuners that were SOTA. Marantz had a few separates in the 80's that I would consider high end. Even Sanyo tried to get into high end in the 80's. I think all of the major companies made high end gear, but a lot of it never made it out of Japan. I sold Kyocera in the 80's and they made fantastic stuff. I still have a PL-601 sprung turntable from them that is very nice. (I have to many turntables!) See link for the specs. In looking at the specs, I should get a cartridge on this thing. This think looks like it could give my LP-12 a run for its money!
Dave
I recall listening to a killer Class A amp by pioneer. Sansui had some tuners that were SOTA.
Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn. :)
Tuners?
Neither of those brands were committed to consistently building products that proved to be among the best sounding.
Kyocera wasn't previously mentioned.
whaa?
I wasn't sure what you meant here?
So what you're saying was the high end store stuff didn't resell well and the "midfi" store stuff did resell well???
I had that Onkyo TX-4500mkii for about a year and it did had CLASS. I have NO idea why I sold it off???? It was in my horse trading dazes.
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