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In Reply to: RE: "Making sense" posted by E-Stat on July 19, 2016 at 14:56:03
I read the link you attached, and most of the posts in the thread it's in.
That first meter thought may have some relevance, as another post talks about listening to power supplies. In an amplifier, or even a simple emitter follower, the signal only serves to modulate the current from the power supply - so in fact, the power supply is in series with the load, and the output can be no better than the quality of the power supply.
So the next question is if a power cord can affect the DC output current from the power supply. Well that would depend on a lot of factors. If the component uses an IEC connector, does the new cord get a better contact than the old one. Much is made of soldering the wires to the connectors in the plugs; but there are a second set of prongs and sockets in the IEC connection. Is that what you hear? I know that the connections at the ends of the speaker cables do make a difference. I have posted on that several times. So, isn't the same thing true for the power cord? Does the break in that's reported result from changes at the end connections? Why isn't a soldered in line cord better?
Also, does the component under test have a bi-directional line filter? If the First Meter argument is true, they should be there to prevent both emitting and receiving noise. And what about the second meter - isn't that an antenna, too? And since all the components are plugged into the same line, I'd be more worried about conducted noise. I am actually, and those components without a line filter built in have ferrites internally on their power connections.
More questions than answers; but as I said, the physics have to make sense.
Jerry
Follow Ups:
Jerry,
A favorite rant of mine is get the Physics right. The Laws of Physics define the boundaries of the "playing field". Never, ever, forget that all of us are plagued by Emperor's New Clothes and Proud Pappa syndromes.
I detest IEC power inlets, as they are just another set of mechanical connections that can, and do, cause trouble. A properly strain relieved, "captive", cable is my strong preference.
Can a power cable make a difference? Some of the time, yes. Suppressing EMI/RFI pickup/transmission and adequate current handling capability definitely matter. However, doing so does not require the expenditure of very large sums.
Gee, silver sounded better than stainless steel. Shocking (NOT). Look at the difference in resistivity.
Eli D.
What about copper vs silver?
In relation to internal wiring, AC lines and speaker wires?
I have some silver signal cables that are associated with phono. Who's to say yay or nay? My SME V arm came with silver cabling and I was not about try something else.
You could, assuming connections were not an issue (they most definitely are), use aluminum for AC mains wire. Anybody who tells you it will sound bad is ignoring the fact that electricity is transported cross-country on aluminum cables, with steel cores. ;> )
I suspect that high purity copper is quite adequate for almost all amp duties.
Perhaps the most interesting use of silver wiring was during WW2. Copper was a strategic material and, for a time, in very short supply. Remember, the 1943 Lincoln cent was made of steel. The Manhattan Project (atom bomb) needed enormous amounts of wiring. They used silver (very big $) until copper became available.
Eli D.
More questions than answers; but as I said, the physics have to make sense.
Contemplating the issue is one thing, but maybe someday you'll have the good fortune of actually experiencing what music lovers and industry professionals have already discovered.
I was quite surprised when I first heard the difference in JWC's system about fifteen years ago when he started using Kimber Palladians. He let me borrow his three to hear what they could do in my system. There's simply more focus and low level resolution to be heard.
Ralf
Remember you and I had that conversation and we both concluded that the difference in the power cords would be in the shielding for RF and digital noise,provided we have adequate voltage,current,and a low resistance,delivered by the cord..Since I like my cord connections to be wrapped and soldered as opposed to slip-on where you risk micro arcing as with the IEC..What I ended up doing was,going to en electrical supply house and getting shielding to fit over 14ga cords,as well as 12ga and 10ga. I solder it to ground on the chassis side only so it acts as an antenna to take noise to ground.
There is also McMaster Carr that has those inductive clamps but I can never find them..They are supposed to be great filtering for noise to be trapped out and you clamp them to each side of the cord.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Remember you and I had that conversation and we both concluded that the difference in the power cords would be in the shielding for RF and digital noise,provided we have adequate voltage,current,and a low resistance
You'll certainly have to quote that reference as I believe there's more to it.
There is also McMaster Carr that has those inductive clamps but I can never find them.
Some folks find that ferrite beads and clamps diminish sound quality in other ways.
I'll take a well designed aftermarket power cord any day.
Ferrite beads have to be used in the right place to be effective but it depends on type of circuit where they are effective.
I'll take a well designed aftermarket power cord any day.
You can make your own that work just as well.I know because we've done it.
Now make your own Ralf..LOL
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
You can make your own that work just as well.I know because we've done it.Yes and no. If you view my profile, you'll find that I use a mix of DIY and commercial power cords. The better DIY cords are based upon Belden 83803 . They're better than stock but don't touch the Harmonic Tech ones used with the power amps. Tell us about yours and to what you've compared it. Who's we? :)
As for Steve's article, there is precious little there I find that agrees with my experience. Who uses "stranded rubber" cords? Shielding bad? Who cares about RFI anyway , right?
He is, however, welcome to his opinion. Mine follows that of companies like ARC (Sain Line) and VTL (Shunyata) who use shielded aftermarket products in their own evaluation systems.
Edits: 07/21/16
I agree and that's why I had posted it..When i don't use shielded cable,my systems are susceptible to hum depending on where used.I posted that to show that everyone has an opinion and while he does mention some good things in the article,some of it is open to conjecture.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
When i don't use shielded cable,my systems are susceptible to hum depending on where used
While I don't suffer hum issues, I find shielding delivers a lower noise floor that allows more transparency.
My power conditioning strategy begins, however, with two dedicated 20A lines.
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