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I would like to pick up cheap tube integrated or power amp -- say no more than $400. Power needs to be at least 10 watts per channel. Looks unimportant but I want something that is reliable and can be repaired if necessary since I don't have the skills. I was thinking maybe a recent vintage off-brand like Jolida or an elderly off-brand like Lafayette or Heath or a Japanese company if I can find one in decent shape. (I am assuming that units from name brands like Scott, Fisher, Dynaco will be too expensive.) Speakers include JR149, EMI DLS529 and Elac F6. I don't play music at audio showroom volume. More power might be nice but with my budget I am happy to sacrifice it. Any ideas? Thanx, PH
It's never too late to turn back the clock.
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integrated Dynaco SCA35 is a proper answer to this question
here is another amp that is utterly fantastic and it is right in your power range being it's 12wpc..You can probably offer them 330 to 350 and get it. I'm sure others will chime in that has one including myself but the
Stromberg Carlson will run circles around many amps period.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
They are a killer amp but they will need to be rebuilt down the road.Here is what they have been selling for on average.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
I like your recommendation on the Stromberg. I bought one of those Sherwoods about 8 years ago - I think it was that model or very similar - but it needed servicing (the seller fibbed a bit) and before I could get it serviced I ran into a poverty patch and had to sell it! But even in its wounded condition it sounded great! Nothing like old tubes.
It's never too late to turn back the clock.
If you have a bit of extra money,get the Sherwood S5000 as it has much more potential that every other integrated amp with EL84 or 7189 tubes.
The reasons for that are the obvious..One,it has Ultra linear output transformers and two,it has a real five tube preamp,including the two phono tubes.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Someday I would love to have one. Great sound and I really like the looks! I remember the mid-60s when Sherwood was a prestige brand just below Marantz and Mac.
It's never too late to turn back the clock.
I changed out the ugly gold plastic knows to some nice black metal ones.
Very clean layout.
Note the eight Auricaps above. I think that their character works best in the 433 as they are very detailed which works well in a warm sounding amp like the ASR-433.
The Stromberg Carlson ASR-433 pictured is complete with Auricaps and it sound very very good. I think a lot of the magic comes from solid engineering as S-C's parent company was General Dynamics - The defense contractor.
They can be had for $200 to $350 and after a few coupling caps, some diodes, and tubes you'll have a outstanding little gem of a amp, albeit only 12 wpc. They respond very well to tube rolling so you can tailor the sound as needed.
I have used ASR-433 with several speakers including Klipsch Heresy, Paradigm Reference, Triangle Titus, and KLH 17's. The KLH 17 pairing was sublime thanks to Jerry's (Bold Eagle) KLH restoration instructions.
To sum up, the S-C sounds very good, but it's not quite in the same class as the all time greatest vintage tube integrated - The Sherwood S-5000 with ultra linear transformers and 7189 output tubes. The S-5000 has crazy good tight bass, I suspect it's the UL transformers.
Back to the S-C; I second your recommendation and would add to that a pair of KLH 17's for $125.
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
Edits: 07/02/16
My SC was a console pull. The cab was outside and falling apart. I pulled the amp and tuner/pre and got it working as a garage amp/radio. Simple recap and it sounds great.
OP is looking for a cheap tube system. I'd suggest consoles (craigslist). I t was a great way for me to build up my tube amp collection. I found one on the side of the road with a "free" sign and the SC was found at a friends.
Keep looking and something will pop up.
looking for some jazz and a little libations - joe strummer
Where did you get the knobs?
It's never too late to turn back the clock.
I believe I got the knobs off of Ebay - I don't remember the vendor, however, there are many sources for "d shaft 12mm & 19mm knobs......Parts Express, Parts Connexion, Mouser, Digikey,etc...
By the way; No need to take a night class to learn how to solder. YouTube is your friend here. Just make sure you practice a bit on a old alarm clock or broken VCR before you get started.
I linked a video and there are many more.
Most any tube amp/integrated amps will drive those Elacs to acceptable listening levels provided you use the correct output tap. In the case of the 6 ohm Elacs I would use the 4 ohm tap as they probably dip below 6 ohms in the mid bass.
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
Thanks for the info. I forget about youtube! There are probably videos on every subject by now!
It's never too late to turn back the clock.
Do you happen to have a link to the KLH instructions? I have a pair that I've been meaning to update. Thanks.
Nt.
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
Thank you. I really appreciate it.
Interesting about the Sherwood. I haven't heard one sense I was a kid at my grandparents but I wouldn't have had any idea if it was any good or not then. I sure dug the look though.I personally would also look for a Eico ST70 or 40 and do the Tronola mods to it. I was really impressed with one. I don'tk now about now but a bit ago they went for cheaper due to their look.
http://www.tronola.com/html/st-70_mods.html
Edit. sorry I didn't take into consideration that the original poster didn't have repair skills. I'd then go for something chinese probably.
Edits: 07/01/16
I have several Eico St70s and that is also a hell of an amp with the Tronola updates but Eli and I are working on one right now that we will change to 6L6gc and use a Baxandall tonal circuit and a bigger power trafo but the same output transformers and the chassis. The Eico ST70 is a fine amp either way..
You would also love a Sherwood S5000 upgrades with a partial film cap power supply and a general recap in the outputs and drivers as well as the enhanced RCA in the phono stage..Ask Charlie or Geezerrocket..If you want the best EL84/7189 integrated,the Sherwood is tough to beat.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
I hope one day to run across one. I've stacked up so much other stuff over the years. I actually really wanted a Sherwood 8000 for awhile until I found a late model Fisher 400 and did David Gillespie's mods to it. Highly recommended.
Please keep us up to date on your progress with the Eico.
Btw, is your email still the yahoo address? I have a annoying scope/hum/amp question that you may be able to shed some light on if you feel charitable.
Dan
The S-5000 stock is a great little amp. One of the all time classics.
If you get one consider yourself blessed!!!!!!! Even better is when you have the funds send it to Mike S. for a full restoration. Then consider yourself blessed twice!!!!!
Little story to go along with this post.
I have several setups that I roll in and out of the system just to keep life spicy. However when ever I get that audio itch to look at or for more gear I roll in the Sherwood and guess what - itch GONE!!!!!
I've had Mac's, Marantz's, Yammies, you name it, I may have had it and the Sherwood (and my other setup) are the ones I'll keep till I die.
Once again thank you Mike for all the wonderful help on the forum and outstanding work you do on these little wonders.
charles
Mikey,
If you have it, please upload the schematic. Tom Bavis' site is not responding. :> (
I want to see if the phono section heaters are simple AC or if the "Cheap Charley" method for DC heaters was employed.
Once again, a unit from that time frame has the, now useless, tape head I/P feature. The remedy is always the same. Replace the source selector switch with a Lorlin part from Mouser and direct wire a set of RCA jacks to the low level mag. preamp section, which gets permanently set for RIAA. Switches in mV. level signal lines are a frequent source of trouble.
BTW, the photos suggest SS rectified B+. Is this another doubler PSU?
Eli D.
"
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong" H. L. Mencken
Yaqin is a nice company to look into (new).
I have a Tube Buffer from them, as well as a Tube buffered DAC.
wiring is basic, and easy to repair.
Tube amps don't exhibit the damping factor that "sand" amps do. The impedance curve of the speakers to be used is very important. Also, speaker manufacturers provide specifications that are misleading. A good example being nominally 4 Ω speakers stated to yield a nn dB. SPL with 2.83 V. of drive. As 2.83 V. into 4 Ω is 2 W., not 1 W., the "true" sensitivity is nn - 3 dB.
Please provide, if possible, links to data about the speakers you plan on using.
If you are willing to DIY, you can easily stay within budget and end up with a nice 12 WPC "El Cheapo". You will not need a preamp, if a CDP is your signal source. I and other "inmates" will do some "hand holding", should you decide to tackle the project.
Eli D.
Hi Eli,
Thanks for your suggestions! Don't have the time for DIY right now -- first I would want to take a night school course so I learn how to solder! I was interested in your comment that with only CD I wouldn't need a preamp. How would I control the volume?
Of the speakers I use, the EMI DLS 529 are from the tube era of course, and supposedly really sound their best with tubes. I believe their efficiency is on the low side, 4 ohms maybe. The JRs are inefficient and have a high-ish impedance. The Elacs are a new model and around 6 ohms nominal impedance and 87dbw efficiency.
It's tempting to take advantage of cheap Chinese labor costs and get a new unit from Yaquin but I need to know I will have recourse if it arrives with dysfunctions.
It's never too late to turn back the clock.
"El Cheapo" includes volume controls, at the I/Ps. ;> )
4 Ω speakers are not a problem, as decent O/P transformers provide for that. What is required is a reasonably flat impedance curve. Dips down to 1 Ω will not do.
The uploaded schematic shows O/P transformers for a close to impoverished person. Your budget should allow for "DynaClone" Z565 transformers, which are the "Gold Standard", of this project.
Eli D.
Thanks for the circuit. One of these days I will learn the DIY skills and when I do, a simple amp will be a nice project!
It's never too late to turn back the clock.
EL84 vintage or new, you will love it.
EL 84s are the way to go ! EL84/6BQ5/7189 Pentodes with a bit of feedback is the ticket...
Console amps were many brands; usually hard-wired without circuit boards, so they are much easier to repair/upgrade than pcb equipped later amps. I notice the OP speakers and he has great choices !
I used to use the DLS529 by EMI; the so-called "Dangerous Loudspeaker" since it easily revealed any shortcomings in the audio chain before it. They are 4 ohms and somewhat efficient ! Thus, they can actually shine with some of the Single-Ended Class A console amps of the 1960s ! Especially, if extreme loudness is not a need, SE Class A EL-84s are tough to beat ! RCA and Magnavox made some serious contenders; as did Westinghouse. Do not be curtailed by the small size of the opt trannies on some of these...
The JR149 are not efficient at all. They like some power and damping for the bass; push-pull EL84 amps are recommended. The OP is smart to look for generic brands to save money. While older Fisher, Scott and Dynaco amps have literally skyrocketed in price, the Heathkit UA-1, UA-2 and integrateds using the same opt iron are well worth restoring. The AA-151 and SA-2 can be bought within budget; but their circuit needs tweaking. The UA1 and 2 are probably a bit over $400. for the pair; but well worth procuring. Lafayette made some very worthy contenders; but also made some losers at the same time; research is needed here...
While many of our peers recommend push-pull 6V6 amps, they are really not enough power for the JR149s. On the other hand, for the EMIs, the 6V6 amps should be fine and inexpensive. 6V6 amps are usually not described as "warm and cuddly" like the higher power 6BQ5/EL84 amps. Instead, they garner the term "neutral" which is usually appropriate for 6V6 amps.
So, start researching and bookmarking some models; especially as there are budget restraints. Do not rush into this market; please. There are way too many choices, every week available. Check model numbers with the forum members and then make your want list...or save some bucks for a great pair of mono amps...Enjoy the search and enjoy the journey...
The better "Maggotbox" console amps (those with CLC PSU filters) using either PP 6V6s or PP EL84s don't come cheaply, these days. :> ( The same forces driving up the price of Fisher, Scott, Sherwood ... have been operating in the console amp "area" too.
There definitely is some "magic" in "12" W. multi-grid power O/P tubes.
Eli D.
Also post this over at the tube forum. A wealth of info
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