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In Reply to: RE: AR-XA Turntable Update posted by AudioSoul on May 27, 2016 at 15:20:45
The small motor to reduce vibration; the belt to isolate the motor; the suspended subchassis to reduce airborne vibration; the offset counterweight to aid in stability; the dual platters to further reduce vibration; etc. I may have some of this wrong and may have missed some items, so please chime in.
Oddly enough, the catalog ads all mention the tonearm viscous damping to prevent damage if the tonearm drops. However, everyone recommends against this one negative attribute, and even AR suggests removing the viscous system pin in their turntable manual.
Other than replacing the tonearm, others also mention improving the vertical tonearm bearings.
I love trying to restore and use old equipment, and I love my old AR-XA that I purchased for $10 at an estate sale. They wanted to give it to me, but I felt bad and paid a few bucks.
Follow Ups:
"The small motor to reduce vibration; the belt to isolate the motor; the suspended subchassis to reduce airborne vibration; the offset counterweight to aid in stability; the dual platters to further reduce vibration; etc. I may have some of this wrong and may have missed some items, so please chime in."
Not really firsts as the earlier Stromberg-Carlson PR-500 (and PR-499) had most of these features.
I realize your reference to "crude looking" is a personal expression, but I don't normally hear references to clean, uncluttered design as being crude.
I don't know if it is still displayed but at one time MOMA (Museum of Modern Art) considered the AR-XA worthy of including in their gallery.
As a personal expression I consider the AR to be one of the best looking tables of all time, and I've been in this hobby since the '60s. By comparison the Stromberg-Carlson is not bad but not as appealing to my eye (based on your photo, I don't recall ever seeing one). Strokes and folks I guess.
"You can't know what the "best" is unless you have heard everything, and keep in mind that given individual tastes, there really isn't any such thing." HP
I never used the word but was responding in the thread.
Seems my comment was misplaced. I've been away for a couple of weeks so trying to hurry through recent posts to catch up.
"You can't know what the "best" is unless you have heard everything, and keep in mind that given individual tastes, there really isn't any such thing." HP
Hi Spotcheck, the Shure M97xE cartridge has a Dynamic Stabilizer and a De-Staticizer. It's to long to explain but it's right on the installation directions. It does have something to do with record and stylus protection.
Spotc I also got a Grado Green but was warned of hum generated when it got close to the motor, the new Hurst one anyway. Some one said the Shure cartridges were almost designed for the ARXA as Ross said.
When you compare the presentation of first unwrapping your parcel the Grado looks like it was shipped in a used toilet paper roll and the cheaper Shure looks like a Cross pen and pencil gift set. It's uncanny. Take care...Mark Korda
Hello Mark,
I've had a M97xE for several years (I even use it sometimes), and know exactly how its Dynamic Stabilizer works. I'll refer to it as the "brush" to simplify this post. It's the exact same principle as Shure has used in many of its offerings for decades.
You choose to use the brush as a dampener, just click it down to its playing (middle) position and set your tracking force so it's 0.5g over what you've been using.
You don't wish to employ the brush? Just position it upwards until it clicks in that position and it's up and out of the way. Just be sure to dial in the tracking force 0.5g lower than above to compensate.
It can also be used as a stylus guard by clicking it down to its lowest position when you're not playing vinyl. In this position the brush protects the stylus from outside influences (kids, fumble-fingered adults, pets, etc.)
Not complicated at all. In fact Stanton used to employ a similar device on its 681EE. I once had one of those too ;-)
I have a Shure M97xe also on a Grace 707. My father had an XA, which I still have, but would need some work. I am very familiar with both. I would expect the M97xe to work well with the AR, brush down of course. It would work better with an Grace 707 arm on the AR, which is practically a drop in. I am not really a big fan of the AR-XA tonearm, but that is another story.
Dave
Hi Spotcheck and Crazy Dave, thanks for the info. I need a magnified glass just to read the instructions. I got the weekend off and I'm finally going thru the rebuild. I want to take some pictures of the arm post bearing fix and have been slow to projects due to learning the new camera curve, let alone the computer.
Not to change the subject but Spotcheck, did you ever run across the Stanton turntable called the Gyropoise? The platter floated around via a magnet. Was it a bad idea...Mark Korda
I have no experience but from the description pictures at this link, the arm does not appear to be disconnected/isolated from the platter. it might be worth taking a look-see if the price is right. If you read the comments, some people think it was one of the worst tables ever made and others love it. See also:
http://www.vinylengine.com/library/pickering/fa112.shtml
The illustration on the Vintage Knob also shows that the arm is attached to the sub-frame:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/THEVAULT1/FA330A/FA330A.html
Dave
Arm is attached to the sub-frame but the platter is isolated from the sub-frame by the magnets.
Hi Mark,
No, I never used a Stanton Gyropoise 'table. The first (and only) time I looked at one I was warned off by the salesman, whom I knew and trusted.
Thankfully, I wound up with a Thorens ;-)
I played around with one for a while. Generally, well thought out and built but the problem with the magnetic suspension meant that the platter was isolated from the chassis and the motor but, also, from the tonearm. As a result, any movement meant dynamic changes in tonearm/cartidge geometry with respect to the LP.
Thanks Kal, never thought of that...great answer!, simple and to the point...Mark K.
Maybe I should have just used the word simple. Sorry.
The Scott TT was similar to the Stomberg Carlson.
Cone shaped speed control. Sprung subchassis.
Where it differed was the arm, I believe it used a London arm and mono cartridge.
I suppose both would have been ancestors of the AR table ?
From my reading, that turntable was introduced in 1955(see link).
I owned one of those, bought it used. The seller later confessed he could never get it to hold its speed, once adjusted, and neither could I. Had a Grado wood arm on it. Beautiful thing. Wish I could have found someone to fix it.
But then I suspect a lot of folks are likewise unfamiliar with my '76 Ariston RD-11s (close kin to LP12 sharing same father).edit: I found your pic on Vinylengine seeking a date of introduction. Do you happen to know when that was?
Edits: 05/29/16
The prices were within $10 of each other, and the Stromberg even had an unipivot arm.
Edits: 05/29/16
It (they) were the precursors of other popular tables like the Linn Sondek.
Thanks very much Kal for correcting my post and pointing out the excellent Stomberg PR500. The post below(page 53) describes the attributes of the Stromberg which Ed Villchur was aware of when he designed the AR-XA.
Hi Alaska, Although I have not installed it yet I have a Shure M97xE cartridge to install. It has a small brush installed in the front. In case you drop the arm the brush device takes the force of the drop instead of the stylus arm. The brush does not make surface contact while playing.
There is some rubber washer on top of the tone arm post that acts with that pin that is recommended to remove that plays into the dropped tonearm scenario. I can't remember without checking but I think that is to be removed when the pin is.
My original motor was making a racket. Wayner ,who works at Van AlStines said put a few drops of 3 and 1 oil on the shaft where the pulley goes on. After a few spins it's been dead silent. Keep those pictures coming....thanks Mark K.
"The brush does not make surface contact while playing".
Only if you lock it in the up position.
Hi Spotcheck, I have not installed the Shure yet but it looks like the brush in the up position will hit the record surface before the stylus arm gets too jammed up. I'm probably wrong but I will check that because I read it somewhere....Good Eye! Spot Check......Mark K.
...that last particle of dust that you mat have missed with the "dust bug".
Later Gator,
Dave
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